SIlmarillion? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-09-2003, 07:48 PM

Is the silmarillion the same as the chapter called "The earliest Silmarillion" in the shaping of middle earth vloume 4?

Nevfeniel · 01-09-2003, 07:58 PM

The Silmarillion is a book. I'm not very good at explaing it any further than that, so, at the risk of sounding lazy, I'll ask someone else to finish the explaination. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Manwe Sulimo · 01-09-2003, 08:19 PM

The Silmarillion is a book published by CRRT after JRRT's death. It contains (sp?) Ainulindalë, the Valaquenta, the Quenta Silmarillion, the Akallebêth, and an essay called Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age. The Earliest Silmarillion is the earliest version of the Quenta Silmarillion, which tells the story of the First Age and the war of the Noldor, Sindar, and Edain with Morgoth.

Legolas · 01-10-2003, 12:06 AM

The History of Middle-earth contains numerous transformations of The Silmarillion. Tolkien had worked on it for a very long time, so it went through countless changes. The published Silmarillion is what his son, Christopher Tolkien, thought was the best representation of what JRR had completed of his lifelong project. It's not complete, but supposed to be the nearest possible version (made from what had been written thus far) to what Tolkien would've published had he finished it before his death. HoME Volumes 1, 2, 4, 10, and 11 are the volumes that deal mostly with The Silmarillion and its various transformations. Christopher compiled all of them too.

[ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: Legalos ]

Deathwail · 01-10-2003, 12:29 AM

I am reading it right now for the first time and i must say while its not all that easy to read ( i read a few pages then need to stop and think about what all was said cause its pretty deep stuff ) its giving me a insight to Middle Earth unlike any of the other books have.Its pretty much a must read for any fan of the LoTR books or Films. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

**lindil** · 01-10-2003, 10:16 AM

It is far denser than the LotR, and far more Elvish [ and in the first hundred or so pages far more concerned with Eru and the Valar].

Manwe Sulimo's precis above was delightfully concise.

One other small point,
The Silmarillion edited by CJRT has several aspects which he has now repudiated [most relatively minor, one major] so it can not be viewed strictly as 'canonical' or perhaps more accurately 'authoritative'.

But compared to the alternative of peicing together your own more accurate version out of HoME and Unfinished Tales [ another source of Silmarillion lore] it is a very worthwhile effort, and most readers take it for what it seems to be The Silmarillion.

Personally when i read it I was 13 or so and had to go through it a second time to realy enjoy/understand it.

I found myself using the glossary and index at the back several times a page, especially until all of the Elvish Princes are introduced.

Eruhen · 01-10-2003, 10:31 AM

Well, it looks like Lindil is trying to recruit even more people for the new Silm. project! The only threads that you seem to post on are ones that relate to editing of the Silm! Anyway, the Silmarillion is a book written by JRRT and edited and compiled by CRRT after his father's death, which means that there are bound to be some errors and inconsitencies. If you have the guts and the time, try piecing together the Legendarium for yourself from Unfinished Tales, the History of Middle-Earth, and including a little bit of the Silmarillion we have now.

And, at the risk of sounding like a jackass since I just ridiculed Lindil for this, if anyone wants to help build a new Silmarillion using HoME and UT, along with the Letters, come to the "Translation from the Elvish" forum down at the bottom of the main forum page and see what we've been doing. Feel free to join in if you want.

**lindil** · 01-10-2003, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Well, it looks like Lindil is trying to recruit even more people for the new Silm. project! The only threads that you seem to post on are ones that relate to editing of the Silm!

ouch! and not true on either count [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] !

I have posted recently on Galadriel,Osanwe-Kenta, Orcs and Eru, Catholic saints and while you were gone I spent almost a week lambasting certain aspects of TTT.

As for the recruitment charge, whle I rarely miss an opportunity to do so, since this was a thread by someone obviously just coming to terms with what The Silm is, I just wanted to give a bit of background to it, not confound an already difficult subject.

And as I was in a mild way critiquing CJRT's work as flawed, I wanted to balance it with saying that the other option is difficult [ but do able] - no mention of our project at all I am afraid [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [other than my sig that is [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] ]

oh and 1 other minor correction

Quote:

come to the "Translation from the Elvish" forum down at the bottom of the main forum page and see what we've been doing.

actually any interested parties would need to go to the Silmarillion Drafts, Canon studies and Theories Forum in the scroll at the bottom, the aforementioned Translations from the Elvish is the Private forum for project members.

[ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

01-09-2003, 07:48 PM	#1
mattyclug1 Guest Posts: n/a	SIlmarillion? Is the silmarillion the same as the chapter called "The earliest Silmarillion" in the shaping of middle earth vloume 4?

01-09-2003, 07:58 PM	#2
Nevfeniel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mithlond Posts: 783	The Silmarillion is a book. I'm not very good at explaing it any further than that, so, at the risk of sounding lazy, I'll ask someone else to finish the explaination. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Consider the purr a variety of audible tranquilizer. [. . .] For a few of us, there is one more purr, a secret purr. When we combine our secret purrs, we produce the Purr of Power. And that is simply the amplified amity we feel as furred and purred beings.

01-09-2003, 08:19 PM	#3
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	The Silmarillion is a book published by CRRT after JRRT's death. It contains (sp?) Ainulindalë, the Valaquenta, the Quenta Silmarillion, the Akallebêth, and an essay called Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age. The Earliest Silmarillion is the earliest version of the Quenta Silmarillion, which tells the story of the First Age and the war of the Noldor, Sindar, and Edain with Morgoth. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

01-10-2003, 12:06 AM	#4
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	The History of Middle-earth contains numerous transformations of The Silmarillion. Tolkien had worked on it for a very long time, so it went through countless changes. The published Silmarillion is what his son, Christopher Tolkien, thought was the best representation of what JRR had completed of his lifelong project. It's not complete, but supposed to be the nearest possible version (made from what had been written thus far) to what Tolkien would've published had he finished it before his death. HoME Volumes 1, 2, 4, 10, and 11 are the volumes that deal mostly with The Silmarillion and its various transformations. Christopher compiled all of them too. [ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: Legalos ] __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

01-10-2003, 12:29 AM	#5
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	I am reading it right now for the first time and i must say while its not all that easy to read ( i read a few pages then need to stop and think about what all was said cause its pretty deep stuff ) its giving me a insight to Middle Earth unlike any of the other books have.Its pretty much a must read for any fan of the LoTR books or Films. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ He who arises in Might.

01-10-2003, 10:16 AM	#6
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	It is far denser than the LotR, and far more Elvish [ and in the first hundred or so pages far more concerned with Eru and the Valar]. Manwe Sulimo's precis above was delightfully concise. One other small point, The Silmarillion edited by CJRT has several aspects which he has now repudiated [most relatively minor, one major] so it can not be viewed strictly as 'canonical' or perhaps more accurately 'authoritative'. But compared to the alternative of peicing together your own more accurate version out of HoME and Unfinished Tales [ another source of Silmarillion lore] it is a very worthwhile effort, and most readers take it for what it seems to be The Silmarillion. Personally when i read it I was 13 or so and had to go through it a second time to realy enjoy/understand it. I found myself using the glossary and index at the back several times a page, especially until all of the Elvish Princes are introduced. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

01-10-2003, 10:31 AM	#7
Eruhen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: At the Mountains of Madness Posts: 399	Well, it looks like Lindil is trying to recruit even more people for the new Silm. project! The only threads that you seem to post on are ones that relate to editing of the Silm! Anyway, the Silmarillion is a book written by JRRT and edited and compiled by CRRT after his father's death, which means that there are bound to be some errors and inconsitencies. If you have the guts and the time, try piecing together the Legendarium for yourself from Unfinished Tales, the History of Middle-Earth, and including a little bit of the Silmarillion we have now. And, at the risk of sounding like a jackass since I just ridiculed Lindil for this, if anyone wants to help build a new Silmarillion using HoME and UT, along with the Letters, come to the "Translation from the Elvish" forum down at the bottom of the main forum page and see what we've been doing. Feel free to join in if you want. __________________ Agannâlô burôda nênud; zâira nênud. Adûn izindi batân tâidô ayadda: îdô kâtha batîna lôkhî. Êphalak îdôn Yôzâyan. Êphal êphalak îdôn hi-Akallabêth.