gandalfs past - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

dwarfwarrior · 06-10-2003, 04:03 PM

why does gandalf not talk about his past to anyone?Also why did he go to moria before the time in the book,which he states in fotr.Aragorn went also before. why?

Lalaith · 06-10-2003, 04:42 PM

He went to Moria to look for Thror.

Gorwingel · 06-10-2003, 04:48 PM

Many of the elves already know about his past because they have been around as long as he has (they been around as long as he has been in Middle Earth) and they knew about his origins so he did not have to tell them. I would think that the main reason that he did not talk about his past was because the hobbits were around much of the time and he probably thought that they could not absorb that he had been around that long. Especially because the hobbits history only went back for a very short time.

Legolas · 06-10-2003, 06:50 PM

A ton of Gandalf's past is documented. Read The Silmarillion (especially the section Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age) and Unfinished Tales (the Third Age sections, obviously, especially The Istari).

Aule · 06-10-2003, 06:52 PM

I was under the impression that there were very few of the original elves left in ME. For example Cirdan and Galdriel. I also thought that even these two great elves only had an inkling of who Gandalf and the rest of the Istari were.
I think he never talked about his past to anyone as he was not allowed by the Lords of the West to reveal who he was. He was meant to unite them without using his full powers as Maier.
Word would quickly spread of a great Lord from over the sea coming to help the peoples of ME in their time of need. Sauron may have made war quicker thus preventing any hope of destroying the ring.

Of course much is said about Gandalf and his History in the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales. Both really good reads providing more info on Gandalf.

Encyclopaedia of Arda
This site has tons of info that you may enjoy

[ June 10, 2003: Message edited by: Aule ]

Gorwingel · 06-10-2003, 07:01 PM

While speaking of the Encyclopedia of Arda, in the section about Gandalf it talks about how Elrond was a friend of Gandalf and they talked much. It also said that Elrond knew how he had arrived in Middle Earth from Cirdan the Shipwright. But that still means that only the three of them probably knew the truth.

Legolas · 06-10-2003, 08:05 PM

Cirdan perceived/knew of Gandalf's errand and coming when Gandalf arrived at the Havens; he told Galadriel and Elrond about this. Glorfindel came with the Istari, so he too was aware of their mission. These are the only people of Middle-earth to know the Istari mission (aside from Sauron, I'd imagine).

Finwe · 06-11-2003, 08:11 AM

I don't think Sauron even knew anything specific about the Istari mission. He knew that they were coming, that was it. In fact, when he chose his disguise as Annatar, he chose it specifically to resemble what he thought the Istari would look like. That way, if he succeeded, then he would do so in a "fair form." If he didn't succeed, then people would remember that form, and when they saw the Istari (who apparently would resemble him, according to Sauron's logic) they would immediately mistrust them, and perhaps even drive them out, thinking that they were Annatar/his followers.

Bruce MacCulloch · 06-11-2003, 08:27 AM

Quote:

In fact, when he chose his disguise as Annatar, he chose it specifically to resemble what he thought the Istari would look like.

Where did you get this?

Finwe · 06-11-2003, 08:34 AM

Either in the Silmarillion or in Unfinished Tales, I can't remember which one.

Bruce MacCulloch · 06-11-2003, 08:49 AM

I found the passage you were referring to:

Quote:

In Eregion Sauron posed as an emissary of the Valar, sent by them to Middle-earth ("thus anticipating the Istari") or ordered by them to remain there to give aid to the Elves.

I hadn't recalled that particular bit, and your thoughts on the subject help to throw some light on part of Sauron's reasoning behind his posing as Annatar.

Aredhel Idril Telcontar · 06-11-2003, 09:52 AM

Gandalf's past was on a need-to-know basis in Middle Earth. Everyone who needed to know did. He spent much time around hobbits, who wouldn't have understood his real power. He was just a firework guy to them [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].
He went into Moira to look for Thor. Aragorn probably went in on one of his rangery quests [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].
Of course, I'm probably wrong about that one [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

**The Saucepan Man** · 06-11-2003, 10:50 AM

Quote:

He went into Moira to look for Thor.

Well he was looking in the wrong place then. He should have gone to Valhalla. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

06-10-2003, 04:03 PM	#1
dwarfwarrior Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 11	gandalfs past why does gandalf not talk about his past to anyone?Also why did he go to moria before the time in the book,which he states in fotr.Aragorn went also before. why?

06-10-2003, 04:42 PM	#2
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	He went to Moria to look for Thror. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

06-10-2003, 04:48 PM	#3
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	Many of the elves already know about his past because they have been around as long as he has (they been around as long as he has been in Middle Earth) and they knew about his origins so he did not have to tell them. I would think that the main reason that he did not talk about his past was because the hobbits were around much of the time and he probably thought that they could not absorb that he had been around that long. Especially because the hobbits history only went back for a very short time. __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

06-10-2003, 06:50 PM	#4
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	A ton of Gandalf's past is documented. Read The Silmarillion (especially the section Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age) and Unfinished Tales (the Third Age sections, obviously, especially The Istari). __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

06-10-2003, 06:52 PM	#5
Aule Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hammering away in Valinor Posts: 126	I was under the impression that there were very few of the original elves left in ME. For example Cirdan and Galdriel. I also thought that even these two great elves only had an inkling of who Gandalf and the rest of the Istari were. I think he never talked about his past to anyone as he was not allowed by the Lords of the West to reveal who he was. He was meant to unite them without using his full powers as Maier. Word would quickly spread of a great Lord from over the sea coming to help the peoples of ME in their time of need. Sauron may have made war quicker thus preventing any hope of destroying the ring. Of course much is said about Gandalf and his History in the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales. Both really good reads providing more info on Gandalf. Encyclopaedia of Arda This site has tons of info that you may enjoy [ June 10, 2003: Message edited by: Aule ] __________________ For him that is pitiless, the deeds of pity are ever strange and beyond reckoning - of Melkor before his final downfall

06-10-2003, 07:01 PM	#6
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	While speaking of the Encyclopedia of Arda, in the section about Gandalf it talks about how Elrond was a friend of Gandalf and they talked much. It also said that Elrond knew how he had arrived in Middle Earth from Cirdan the Shipwright. But that still means that only the three of them probably knew the truth. __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

06-10-2003, 08:05 PM	#7
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Cirdan perceived/knew of Gandalf's errand and coming when Gandalf arrived at the Havens; he told Galadriel and Elrond about this. Glorfindel came with the Istari, so he too was aware of their mission. These are the only people of Middle-earth to know the Istari mission (aside from Sauron, I'd imagine). __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

06-11-2003, 08:11 AM	#8
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	I don't think Sauron even knew anything specific about the Istari mission. He knew that they were coming, that was it. In fact, when he chose his disguise as Annatar, he chose it specifically to resemble what he thought the Istari would look like. That way, if he succeeded, then he would do so in a "fair form." If he didn't succeed, then people would remember that form, and when they saw the Istari (who apparently would resemble him, according to Sauron's logic) they would immediately mistrust them, and perhaps even drive them out, thinking that they were Annatar/his followers. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

06-11-2003, 08:34 AM	#10
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Either in the Silmarillion or in Unfinished Tales, I can't remember which one. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

06-11-2003, 09:52 AM	#12
Aredhel Idril Telcontar Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hanging on a sheer cliff with Maedhros Posts: 113	Gandalf's past was on a need-to-know basis in Middle Earth. Everyone who needed to know did. He spent much time around hobbits, who wouldn't have understood his real power. He was just a firework guy to them [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. He went into Moira to look for Thor. Aragorn probably went in on one of his rangery quests [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. Of course, I'm probably wrong about that one [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ "I am your sister and not your servant, and beyond your bounds I will go as seems good to me." Tai uzdaryk mane Tevyne savyje/kaip giesme gerkleje mirtis uzdaro/ ir kaip uzdaro vakara naktis/ o Tu man atsakai: as Tavo laisve