Glorfindel - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Dûrkriswen · 02-01-2002, 07:15 PM

In the Silmarillion, (which I havn't realy read yet), it says Glorfindel is killed by a Balrog at Gondolin. I though Glorfidel was in the FOTR? Were their two different people named Glorfindel? Also, where is Gondolin exactly..

If the Glorfindel in FOTR was a different person than the Glorfindel that was killed by the Balrog, what ever happens to him? I can't remember the LOTR saying anything about him except he rescued Frodo at the ford.

Elrian · 02-01-2002, 07:25 PM

According to Christopher Tolkien in The Return of the Shadow (HoMe) It is the same Glorfindel. Gondolin was in the hidden valley of Tumladen, in Beleriand which was destroyed and sank beneath the sea in the beginning of the Second Age.

Jjudvven · 02-01-2002, 11:12 PM

So... What happened to him? Did he some back like Gandalf or something?

Aiwendil · 02-02-2002, 09:32 AM

Glorfindel of Gondolin is indeed the same as Glorfindel of Rivendell. As discussed in HoMe X, Elves can be reincarnated by the Valar. In Glorfindel's case (moving to HoMe XII), he was reincarnated in Valinor and then sent back to Middle-earth, possibly at the same time as the Istari.

Dûrkriswen · 02-02-2002, 06:59 PM

Was Beleriand in Numenore or somewhere North of the Grey Mts. in Middle Earth?

Kuruharan · 02-02-2002, 07:53 PM

Beleriand was west of the Blue Mountains. It was submerged at the breaking of Thangorodrim. The Grey Mountains were actually some of the remains of the Iron Mountains that Thangorodrim was attached to.
Numenor was right in the middle of the Sundering Sea between Middle Earth and Valinor. It was a little bit closer to Valinor so that the Numenoreans could see the tops of some of the towers of the Elves in Valinor, or something like that.

Elrian · 02-02-2002, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil:
Glorfindel of Gondolin is indeed the same as Glorfindel of Rivendell. As discussed in HoMe X, Elves can be reincarnated by the Valar. In Glorfindel's case (moving to HoMe XII), he was reincarnated in Valinor and then sent back to Middle-earth, possibly at the same time as the Istari.

Glorfindel would have had to have returned before Numenor sank, he most likely returned before the war that ended the First Age, with the host from Valinor that was sent to defeat Morgoth. After Numenor fell, and The Undying Lands were removed from the confines of the world, none but the Istari sailed out to Middle Earth.

Elrian · 02-02-2002, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jjudvven:
So... What happened to him? Did he some back like Gandalf or something?

Obviously he came back.

Aiwendil · 02-03-2002, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Glorfindel would have had to have returned before Numenor sank, he most likely returned before the war that ended the First Age, with the host from Valinor that was sent to defeat Morgoth. After Numenor fell, and The Undying Lands were removed from the confines of the world, none but the Istari sailed out to Middle Earth.

From what I recall the discussion of Glorfindel in HoMe XII suggests that he came back sometime in the second age. I think it still would have been possible for him to come back after the change of the world, though, since the Valar sanctioned his trip.

Voronwe · 02-03-2002, 12:37 PM

Yes, in Last Writings Tolkien says that Glorfindel's return very probably took place during the second age before the shadow fell on Numenor. It is said that he might have come to Middle Earth to aid Gil-Galad in the battles that occured following Sauron's forging of the One Ring. While Tolkien doesn't rule out the possibility of Glorfindel returning after the Change of the World, he deems it very improbable, saying that Manwë would have need special permission from Eru to allow it to happen.

-Voronwë

Dáin Ironfoot · 02-05-2002, 05:47 PM

Both Glorfindel and the Balrog fell to thier deaths, but it protected the retreaty people of Gondolin.

Almost all the elves were reicarnated by the Valar, in the Sil it talks of how some must wait longer than others, namely Feanor and his 7 sons. Some, like Fingolfin didnt wait very long at all.

Glorfindel was obviously not tired of Middle Earth yet, so he returned.

Elrian · 02-05-2002, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Almost all the elves were reicarnated by the Valar, in the Sil it talks of how some must wait longer than others, namely Feanor and his 7 sons. Some, like Fingolfin didnt wait very long at all.

Only 6 of Feanor's sons died, Maglor was still alive somehwere.

02-13-2002, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dáin Ironfoot:
Both Glorfindel and the Balrog fell to thier deaths, but it protected the retreaty people of Gondolin.

Almost all the elves were reicarnated by the Valar, in the Sil it talks of how some must wait longer than others, namely Feanor and his 7 sons. Some, like Fingolfin didnt wait very long at all.

Glorfindel was obviously not tired of Middle Earth yet, so he returned.

Wow! Can you tell me which part of the Silmarillion says that the fallen 1st born may live again?

And where's the part on Fingolfin's return? He's my all time fav character.

Thks for d assist!

02-14-2002, 01:37 PM

Despite his short apperance in FOTR; I liked Glorfindel and wanted to find out more about who he is. It's preety likely that he just came back to ME, but Tolkien never mentions why or how which is what makes Glorfindel such a highly discussed topic.

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Ellesime ]

Daegwenn · 02-19-2002, 05:12 PM

Glorfindel is quite the enigmatic character. There are many theories around him--most like to believe that he did come back (this is what i believe) but if you want to read this, it may help clarify a few things...

Glorfindel article

I asked the same question in books II. It's called Glorfindel; shadow in the background. *shrugs* You might want to read it because there are some interesting things there...

I hope I didn't confuse you...

~~Daegwenn

Keeper of Dol Guldur · 02-20-2002, 10:14 AM

Glorfindel was related to king Turgon. He was of the house of the Golden hair (or something similar) Notably because he was Noldorin but had golden hair. He was a great warrior, and wise. After he came back from death, he went with Elrond to Rivendell at one point (Elrond may have been the most closely related to him). He must have been strong because when Earnur was humiliated by the Witch King in the second age, and Glorfindel arrived, the Witch King fled. Also he must have been wise, because he prophecized that no mortal man would kill the Witch King. I would wonder if he was related to Galadriel moreso than Elrond? It never mentioned direct relation to anyone in any book. He probably had a sword similar to Glamdring or Orcrist. He may have been friends with Ecthelion, etc... These from being from Gondolin. There you go, some regular information.

Dáin Ironfoot · 02-20-2002, 08:32 PM

Its been months since I last read the Sil, but I distinctly remember reading thatFingolfin was reincarnated quickly. Yes I know that Maglor did not directly die, but ill bet he got tired of wandering by the sea and eventually died, him being the most temperate son of Feanor.

Daegwenn · 02-21-2002, 10:13 AM

*scratches head looking very, very confused* Well, what I don't get is, J.R.R. Tolkien made Golden hair a rare thing amongst elves, but Thranduil has golden hair. So does Galadriel and Glorfindel...so does that make them related in some way?

~~Daegwenn

Ithilwen · 02-21-2002, 11:59 AM

Golden hair is rare among the Noldor (one of the three kindreds of the High Elves or Eldar); it's the usual hair color of the Vanyar (the smallest kindred of the Eldar), and apparently also occurs with some frequency among the Teleri and their cousins the Sindar. Thrainduil is of the Sindar, although most of his people are Silvan elves.

Ulmo · 02-21-2002, 12:53 PM

Glorfinel is a fascinating character! His short presence in FotR is powerful and awe-inspiring! I loved the FotR movie, but I am soooooo, soooooooo bummed out that he was not in it!

Long live Glorfindel!

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Voronwe · 02-21-2002, 01:07 PM

I'm pretty certain that there is no mention of Fingolfin's reincarnation in the Silmarillion. However, there is a reference to the reincarnation of Finrod Felagund.

-Voronwë

Legolas · 02-24-2002, 02:38 PM

Someone stated correctly - light hair was a trait of the Vanyar. This trait was introduced into the Noldorin tree when Indis (a Vanyarin) became Finwë's second wife. Indis bore Finarfin and Fingolfin (Míriel had previously given birth to Fëanor), thus in their lines, we see the occasional light-haired elf [i.e. Galadriel (in Fingolfin's), Gil-galad (from Finarfin's)].

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]

02-01-2002, 07:15 PM	#1
Dûrkriswen Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 12	Glorfindel In the Silmarillion, (which I havn't realy read yet), it says Glorfindel is killed by a Balrog at Gondolin. I though Glorfidel was in the FOTR? Were their two different people named Glorfindel? Also, where is Gondolin exactly.. If the Glorfindel in FOTR was a different person than the Glorfindel that was killed by the Balrog, what ever happens to him? I can't remember the LOTR saying anything about him except he rescued Frodo at the ford. __________________ http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/...2320898899.jpg

02-01-2002, 07:25 PM	#2
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	According to Christopher Tolkien in The Return of the Shadow (HoMe) It is the same Glorfindel. Gondolin was in the hidden valley of Tumladen, in Beleriand which was destroyed and sank beneath the sea in the beginning of the Second Age. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

02-01-2002, 11:12 PM	#3
Jjudvven Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Land to the West Posts: 154	So... What happened to him? Did he some back like Gandalf or something? __________________ "I don't know all of you as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve."

02-02-2002, 06:59 PM	#5
Dûrkriswen Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 12	Was Beleriand in Numenore or somewhere North of the Grey Mts. in Middle Earth? __________________ http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/...2320898899.jpg

02-02-2002, 07:53 PM	#6
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,593	Beleriand was west of the Blue Mountains. It was submerged at the breaking of Thangorodrim. The Grey Mountains were actually some of the remains of the Iron Mountains that Thangorodrim was attached to. Numenor was right in the middle of the Sundering Sea between Middle Earth and Valinor. It was a little bit closer to Valinor so that the Numenoreans could see the tops of some of the towers of the Elves in Valinor, or something like that. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

02-02-2002, 09:32 AM	#4
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	Glorfindel of Gondolin is indeed the same as Glorfindel of Rivendell. As discussed in HoMe X, Elves can be reincarnated by the Valar. In Glorfindel's case (moving to HoMe XII), he was reincarnated in Valinor and then sent back to Middle-earth, possibly at the same time as the Istari.

02-03-2002, 12:37 PM	#10
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	Yes, in Last Writings Tolkien says that Glorfindel's return very probably took place during the second age before the shadow fell on Numenor. It is said that he might have come to Middle Earth to aid Gil-Galad in the battles that occured following Sauron's forging of the One Ring. While Tolkien doesn't rule out the possibility of Glorfindel returning after the Change of the World, he deems it very improbable, saying that Manwë would have need special permission from Eru to allow it to happen. -Voronwë __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

02-05-2002, 05:47 PM	#11
Dáin Ironfoot Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 33	Both Glorfindel and the Balrog fell to thier deaths, but it protected the retreaty people of Gondolin. Almost all the elves were reicarnated by the Valar, in the Sil it talks of how some must wait longer than others, namely Feanor and his 7 sons. Some, like Fingolfin didnt wait very long at all. Glorfindel was obviously not tired of Middle Earth yet, so he returned. __________________ "Understanding your people paves the road to understanding leadership"- Old Atreides maxim

02-14-2002, 01:37 PM	#14
Ellesime Guest Posts: n/a	Despite his short apperance in FOTR; I liked Glorfindel and wanted to find out more about who he is. It's preety likely that he just came back to ME, but Tolkien never mentions why or how which is what makes Glorfindel such a highly discussed topic. [ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Ellesime ]

02-19-2002, 05:12 PM	#15
Daegwenn Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 82	Glorfindel is quite the enigmatic character. There are many theories around him--most like to believe that he did come back (this is what i believe) but if you want to read this, it may help clarify a few things... Glorfindel article I asked the same question in books II. It's called Glorfindel; shadow in the background. shrugs You might want to read it because there are some interesting things there... I hope I didn't confuse you... ~~Daegwenn __________________ "And still of a winter’s night, they say, when the wind is in the trees, When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas, When the road is a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor, A highwayman comes riding— Riding—Riding— A highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door. Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard. And he taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred. He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there But the landlord’s black-eyed daughter, Bess, the landlord’s daughter, Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair" Highwayman Alfred Noyes

02-20-2002, 10:14 AM	#16
Keeper of Dol Guldur Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 315, CNY Boys and girls. Posts: 405	Glorfindel was related to king Turgon. He was of the house of the Golden hair (or something similar) Notably because he was Noldorin but had golden hair. He was a great warrior, and wise. After he came back from death, he went with Elrond to Rivendell at one point (Elrond may have been the most closely related to him). He must have been strong because when Earnur was humiliated by the Witch King in the second age, and Glorfindel arrived, the Witch King fled. Also he must have been wise, because he prophecized that no mortal man would kill the Witch King. I would wonder if he was related to Galadriel moreso than Elrond? It never mentioned direct relation to anyone in any book. He probably had a sword similar to Glamdring or Orcrist. He may have been friends with Ecthelion, etc... These from being from Gondolin. There you go, some regular information. __________________ "I come from yonder...Have you seen Baggins? Baggins has left, he is coming. He is not far away. I wish to find him. If he passes will you tell me? I will come back with gold." - Khamul the Easterling

02-20-2002, 08:32 PM	#17
Dáin Ironfoot Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 33	Its been months since I last read the Sil, but I distinctly remember reading thatFingolfin was reincarnated quickly. Yes I know that Maglor did not directly die, but ill bet he got tired of wandering by the sea and eventually died, him being the most temperate son of Feanor. __________________ "Understanding your people paves the road to understanding leadership"- Old Atreides maxim

02-21-2002, 10:13 AM	#18
Daegwenn Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 82	scratches head looking very, very confused Well, what I don't get is, J.R.R. Tolkien made Golden hair a rare thing amongst elves, but Thranduil has golden hair. So does Galadriel and Glorfindel...so does that make them related in some way? ~~Daegwenn __________________ "And still of a winter’s night, they say, when the wind is in the trees, When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas, When the road is a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor, A highwayman comes riding— Riding—Riding— A highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door. Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard. And he taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred. He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there But the landlord’s black-eyed daughter, Bess, the landlord’s daughter, Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair" Highwayman Alfred Noyes

02-21-2002, 11:59 AM	#19
Ithilwen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: western Arda Posts: 41	Golden hair is rare among the Noldor (one of the three kindreds of the High Elves or Eldar); it's the usual hair color of the Vanyar (the smallest kindred of the Eldar), and apparently also occurs with some frequency among the Teleri and their cousins the Sindar. Thrainduil is of the Sindar, although most of his people are Silvan elves. __________________ And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters.

02-21-2002, 12:53 PM	#20
Ulmo Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 55	Glorfinel is a fascinating character! His short presence in FotR is powerful and awe-inspiring! I loved the FotR movie, but I am soooooo, soooooooo bummed out that he was not in it! Long live Glorfindel! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Lord of the seas and one of the greatest of the Valar; in the dark days of the First Age, he kept watch on Elves and Men while the others of his order remained in Valinor. He is famed for bringing Tuor to Gondolin, and so ultimately bringing about the downfall of Morgoth in the War of Wrath.

02-21-2002, 01:07 PM	#21
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	I'm pretty certain that there is no mention of Fingolfin's reincarnation in the Silmarillion. However, there is a reference to the reincarnation of Finrod Felagund. -Voronwë __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

02-24-2002, 02:38 PM	#22
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Someone stated correctly - light hair was a trait of the Vanyar. This trait was introduced into the Noldorin tree when Indis (a Vanyarin) became Finwë's second wife. Indis bore Finarfin and Fingolfin (Míriel had previously given birth to Fëanor), thus in their lines, we see the occasional light-haired elf [i.e. Galadriel (in Fingolfin's), Gil-galad (from Finarfin's)]. [ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ] __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.