RPG RESOURCES

[Bêthberry]

Greetings Downers,

This is a public-service thread intended to be a repository for sources, links, and information which can provide richness of detail for Downers who are trying to make their RPG posts as faithful and consistent with Tolkien's style as possible.

It is inspired by a discussion yesterday between the Barrow-Wight and Gandalf the Grey. Gandalf the Grey suggested that not all RPGs are created equal and The Barrow-Wight acknowledged that the sample RPG post provided by Gandalf the Grey would make a significant contribution to the quality of the Barrow-Downs, significant enough to be considered in determining when a Downer qualitifies for a personal title.

So, this is the place to share all your neat sources and links which give your posts on RPGs depth and richness. I'll be posting some of mine, but I'm sure that many of you have other, equally interesting sources.

Let's hear it for substantial, substantive RPGs at the Barrow-Downs that sound like Middle Earth. No more pointy ears! (joke)

Bethberry

[ September 05, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 1:41 PM January 23, 2004: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[Bêthberry]

*Bethberry puts her tongue firmly in her cheek*

You've seen the movie but haven't read the books? You've set yourself a near-impossible task to create a truly Middle earth inspired RPG if you rely solely on Peter Jackson's movie. No matter how wonderful it is visually, cinematically, musically, no movie can match the depth of detail or characterization in the books. If you don't believe me, just compare Aragorn's "Let's go hunt some orcs" from the movie with what he says in the book after the Fellowship breaks up.

Primary sources:

The Hobbit
The Lord of the Rings
The Silmarillion

Any other Tolkien source such as HOME or Unfinished Tales is gravy. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Bb

[Bêthberry]

Want a quick refresher? Go to an online encyclopedia.

Barrow Downs Encyclopedia

Encyclopedia of Arda

Annals of Arda

Bb

[Bêthberry]

Want some help writing some inspired Sindarin or Khazdul? Looking for some Black Speech to lend a bit of colour to your orc characterization? Try these links.

Sindarin/ English word search

Ardalambion, of the tongues of Arda

Bb

[Bêthberry]

Want to get into sword play in a big way? Keep your pommel separate from your tang?

PARTS OF A SWORD

And here's a site with information on how Viking, Medieval and Roman swords are made today. Information on armour, too.


Weaponry

Bb

[ October 19, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[Bêthberry]

Sources from the archeology of the Anglo Saxon period can help inspire your sense of the dwarves' metalwork--or, even, what a barrow is/ was! (One source of Tolkien's inspiration was the warrior epics of Anglo Saxon culture.) There are images here for clothes, jewellery, tools, etc.


Anglo Saxon Culture

Bb

[Cimmerian]

Quite a treasure trove of information, Bethberry. You must have done some extensive research. But going through all that takes away the general Idea of fun the Freestyle RPG room is all about.

Now if we were playing point counter RPGs/ board RPGs, this information would help enhance and improve one's chances.

I did go through Gandalf the Grey's post on how his Role play qualifies him to be acknowledged for a personal title, but I see nothing more than creative writing there good enough to make a fan fic, the same as anyone else's. The question then is why waste this much effort in a mere RPG which so few will actually read , when one can write all this as a fan fic and have it exposed to many more people in general.

Besides what's the point of a title anyway when people just post away any and everything, even messages that should be private, to get to the next level, regardless of them being on the subject.

The fun stops here, it seems.

[Orofacion of the Vanyar]

But going through all that takes away the general Idea of fun the Freestyle RPG room is all about.

Perhaps this isn't quite fair to say, this is your view on the subject and purpose of the Freestyle RPG Forum. I find an accurate RP post far more interesting, satisfying, and "fun" then those of more... creative origins. And besides, read the thread title, "Substantial Tolkien-inspired RPGs."

The question then is why waste this much effort in a mere RPG which so few will actually read , when one can write all this as a fan fic and have it exposed to many more people in general.

To satisfy a personnal desire to be accurate and honor the works of Professor Tolkien to the best of one's ability. I wouldn't dream of creating some abstract, off-base character that would not "mesh" well with Tolkien's works. But that is my opinion.

Some people might not have the time or patience to write their own fan-fic, but feel an RP satisfies their writing desires.

Besides what's the point of a title anyway when people just post away any and everything, even messages that should be private, to get to the next level, regardless of them being on the subject.

I believe the Barrow-Wight stated that to gain your own title, you must have contributed well thought out, developed posts, not just the simple ones many post around the Downs. Quite the contrary to what you say, they must be on subject.

Bethberry is merely bringing useful Rp tools for some into an all in one thread, instead of having to hunt for them, or not knowing where to look at all.

Here we go again, eh Bethberry? You seem to have picked up a few more links since last time. I will add what I can tomorrow when I have more sleep. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ July 24, 2002: Message edited by: Orofacion of the Vanyar ]

[Bêthberry]

Dear Cimmerian,

Thanks for taking the time to reply and express your opinion about a central repository of sources and information. Fair, frank, and open discussion is always valuable, to my mind. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I started the thread to provide ready access to the many different sources available for those who are interested in Tolkien-inspired RPGs. There is no compulsion implied at all, on any one. For some of us, writing RPGs with this kind of knowledge is fun and I was simply thinking it might be nice to share resources and inspirations. It is my understanding that the other RPG forums here are not taking any new threads or characters, so where else can we go but the Freestyle RPG forum? Surely the presence there of RPGs faithful to Tolkien does not limit, hinder or restrict any other kind of writing.

As to why we would bother writing an RPG this way, well, Orofacion of the Vanyarhas expressed my thoughts perfectly:

To satisfy a personal desire to be accurate and honor the works of Professor Tolkien to the best of one's ability.

One of the great motivations in sharing the writing on RPGs, rather than simply doing it all oneself in a fanfic, is the creative stimulation of writing with other like-minded people. The interaction makes it fun and refreshing. I learn alot about narrative watching and responding to other people's style of story-telling. Also, I know many people online who do take the time to read other people's RPGs and not only fanfic. In fact, I myself tend to read RPGs more than fanfic, but this could be simply my own idiosyncrasy.

The purpose of discussion boards like The Barrow Downs is to share ideas, isn't it? That's what I was inviting others to do, who are interested.

Respectfully,
Bethberry

[Elenna]

My RPG ideas generally come from whatifs.

for example "What if Rivendell was taken over by orcs?"

That was the birth of the Rivendell RPG.

If you think about it too much, whats the point?

[Bêthberry]

Thanks for sharing your source, Elenna. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Bethberry

[The Fifth]

Wow, Bethberry, that is quite a heap of information you have there! Remember, the Barrow-Wight had said that he has not the time to look through all of the RPGs.. does that mean you must PM him with the link to the RPG? If we had to do that just to get a personal title, it would be kind of annoying to him. Sure, I may never get a personal title, but I still have fun talking and RPing about Tolkien, and I suppose that was the whole point of the Forum being created. The personal titles are just given to people who are good and thoughful posters and prolly give people a reason not to spam the Forum with one-liners.

[Bêthberry]

HI The Fifth!

Glad to see you moseying on over here! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] *offers The Fifth a carrot in memory of a great character* You could have won the Triple Crown, you know? *grins*

Actually, my intention on this thread had nothing to do with personal titles or, indeed, of notifying the Barrow Wight of any RPGs. There is no suggestion of doing that any where on this thread. Post counts were simply the context in which the discussion of RPGs occurred.

My motivation was simply to share information with others who might be interested in writing RPGs that are more closely inspired by Tolkien's world. That's all. Do you have anything you would like to share?

Bethberry

[Bêthberry]

Greetings piosenniel,

That link to the astronomy in particular is fantastic! I've never seen anything like it. Thanks so much for sharing it.

*curtsies cordially*
Bethberry

[Manelwen]

I got a bit offended when I saw your thread here, Bethberry, but after swallowing my own big pride, I thought to myself that it might be worth just pulling resources together and see if we can be a little accurate and maybe learn a bit. Since afterall, writing is a learning experience and we should at least now a little bit about what we are writting ourselves into.

So...I have a few things here that might be of a little help. Lots of stuff about archery.

Archery Terms- These have a lot of terms for Compound bows but there are a few little terms and things that you might want to look at. What a fletcher is, a flu-flu, nocking an arrow or what not.

PARTS OF AN ARROW

Besides a back Quiver, you also have these different ones too...

QUIVERS

Hope that helps a bit...

[ October 19, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[Birdland]

Hey all. I don't think that Bethberry posted this thread to criticize. I think the links she's supplied are very helpful, and here's why. (OK, this will sound like criticizing):

An interesting RPG, to me, is all in the details. That is what made Tolkien such a facinating writer. A character didn't just "sleep under a tree". He told you the type of tree, and what it's branches would look like when the moon shined through its branches, or the rain touched its leaves. A traveler doesn't just "look up at the stars". The stars had names and meaning, and the character would be inspired or intimidated by them.

Also it's good to remember that if you want a story to read "like Tolkien", you don't have to rely just on Tolkien's work. Our favorite author got his ideas and inspiration from the tales and languages of many cultures, and with the magic of the Internet, you have these same sources right at your fingertips! If you would like to choose a name for a character, but don't want it to be in one of the Elf languages, you can go to one of the many foreign language dictionaries or phrase books online and come up with some great names for characters. For example: here's a great site I found when trying to come up with a character name once:

Multilingual Names for Birds

Or if you need to create a "history" for a character, go search out the less common folk tales and songs of any culture. That's how Tolkien came up with many of his ideas, and you can do it, too! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[The Barrow-Wight]

This is a very nice thread. Thanks Bethberry. You have provided a much-needed resource for our RPG writers, for that's exactly what the RPG forums were originally created for - a place to write.

The original RPGs were made to be different than most (and quite different than what much of 'Freestyle' has become). The goal was not a place for random role-play, but rather for people to creatively mold a tale from more than one author. 'Freestyle' was made to allow non-moderated RPGs, but it really was never supposed to become what it is. Hopefully, Bethberry's helpful thread will encourage people to be more 'fan-fictionish'. That's what I'd like to see!

[Gandalf_theGrey]

Long live fan-fictionish RPGs! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks, Bethberry,

Both for bringing together so many inspirational writing resources, and for your kind mention of me. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

All:

As for me, I've used the phrase "interactive fan fiction adventures" for several years now to describe the type of RPG stories that I create. Formerly, I was involved in these adventures in the X-Files realm. Now that the X-Files series is over, I'm happy to have found a home here at the Barrow Downs in which to continue on adventuring in a Middle Earth realm. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Gandalf the Grey

[Lugbúrz]

Hello there. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

British Trees

British Ornithology

English Nature

There are lots of repositories for Nature and landscapes. If interested, I can provide some links to Geographical features too.

Cheers.

[Cimmerian]

Hey Beth,
I have nothing against this topic in terms of the information it provides, indeed it is very helpful. I presented an opposing view only to the notion that all this detail tends to stifle the free flowing nature RPGs in this format prosper in.

Now if I were writing fanfiction, which I incidently do, I would lap up all this information and search for more. When posting in an RPG, one is required to read the posts before one to relate to the story - now if these posts ahead of one contain long drawn, explicitly detailed descritions of everything in the era of the story, one will loose interest in following up after having to read and digest it all. One might as well use that energy in writng a fan fic.
For the role play, one searches for quick relevant, action and adventure themed posts to have a free flowing nature to the game.

But then a rare few of you have ample time and resource to structure your RPG posts into literary works of art and also have the time to read these posts in their entirity. I certainly am not qualified to stand up and be counted among those few.

As for writing in the way Tolkien did. I say this - As a writer one must express one's creativity without needing to lean too much on one's influences and inspirations. Otherwise one might be trapped under the set rules and guides of that one style of expression without much freedom of thought.

I certainly do not wish to stay confined within the boundaries of Tolkienist writing. But keeping a strong base of such, I intend to expand into newer horizons, creatively.

Does that make me a bad guy? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Lugbúrz]

As a writer one must express one's creativity without needing to lean too much on one's influences and inspirations.

Influence or not, a writer must find his words... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

The last link I provided might be a tad bit too extensive and would probably not be very useful unless one had a lot of time to spend on it or were fairly familiar with the landscape of England. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ July 25, 2002: Message edited by: Lugbúrz ]

[Bêthberry]

Cordial Greetings Manelwen,

I apologize if the thread title caused you any discomfort. I was looking around for some kind of way to describe what Gandalf the Grey has now so well characterized as "interactive fan-fictionish RPGs". I took the word "substantial" from the Barrow Wight's post on the other thread and, well, it sounds better coming from him. Maybe I should edit the thread title? Your contribution on vocabulary from archery is great; I learnt alot from it myself. Thanks for posting, and please keep contributing!

Birdie, thanks for recognizing my intention to be helpful! *smiles in appreciation* Are you by any chance a birder? If so, it appears that you share two interests with Gandalf--birding and re-enacting. Interesting....

Thank you for your kind words, Barrow Wight.

Gandalf the Grey, from "The truth is out there" to ... "The truth is out there". *half-smiles conspiratorially* Do you think orcs qualify as 'bumpynecks'? I just might borrow your term to revise this thread title!

Lugburz: *waves a big hello and dances a merry little jig* Thank you for those links, Tower of Adamant. I used a similar link for an infamous 'badger' episode here. *grins* The more, the more helpful here.

Cimmerian, what was it Gandalf said to Frodo about making the best use of one's time? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Actually, no one is forcing you to use these links in your freeform RPGs (although you should look back at the Barrow Wight's post here), so what's your point if others choose to?

As for dedicating oneself to Tolkien-inspired writing, it is a hoary old chestnut to think that such discipline stifles creativity. Just look at how Tolkien himself was inspired by the Norse and Celtic myths. Writing interactive, fan fictionish RPGs is simply an extension of reading Tolkien and is every bit as aware and creative and stimulating as discussion of Tolkien. If you want to settle for chat instead of discussion, well, that's your kettle of fish, but I wouldn't necessarily call it creativity. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Good night, all,
Bethberry

[Bêthberry]

Clothing! I haven't yet found anything on Iron Age clothing, but here's some medieval vocabulary.

Vocabulary for Medieval Clothing

Bethberry

[Lugbúrz]

The more, the more helpful here

Very well, then. But don't complain that it is a bit too scientific. It's a good site to understand the biomes and also has a very good glossary of terms.

Geography

~Lug

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Bethberry, this is a wonderful idea for a thread! Thank you very much! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I don't do RPGs (except for a few appearances on the party threads), but much to my astonishment, I'm finding myself writing a fan fiction, and these links are excellent source material for those as well.

[Elenna]

I would like to expound on what the Barrow Wight and Cimmerian have been saying.

In my opinion, a lot of the Freestyle RPGs are departing from what the original vision for this forum was. As the BW said, it was supposed to be for fanfictionish RPing. Now, however, it seems to be veering more towards chatting about random things, interspersed with comments such as "So and so drew his sword and attacked". I attribute this to people who do not know much about RPing joining the games without much knowledge of A) the previous posts or B) RP procedure and etiquette.

However, none of this is your fault, Bethberry. In fact, I have quite enjoyed this thread, and plan to use some of the information in subsequent RPGs and stories.

[The Barrow-Wight]

To stop us from straying from the useful thread Bethberry has created, please go to this link to continue the discussion of
Different styles of RPG...

Let's keep this thread on the topic: Sources for Interactive, Tolkien-inspired, fanfic-like RPGs

[ July 26, 2002: Message edited by: The Barrow-Wight ]

[Rimbaud]

In order to facilitate accurate chronology for those stories taking place within the Tolkien framework:

Time-line

Good work, Bethberry.

PS Maybe you originally meant 'substantive' rather than 'substantial'. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ July 26, 2002: Message edited by: Stephanos ]

[Cimmerian]

Hey Beth,
I wouldn't settle for a chat-room type RPG if it was next to the last game on earth.

I suppose that apart from the BW and Elenna, no one else has grasped what my point is, which I have tried yet again to express in the thread the Barrow Wight has started referring to this one.

Actually, no one is forcing you to use these links in your freeform RPGs, so what's your point if others choose to?

My point here is that they will be in my face with all that jargon, ruining the game play in my free-form RPGs, thank you. [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

[Bêthberry]

Lugburz,

That link to Geography might well be very technical, but quess what I found there. The word 'hamada' means 'desert, bedrock'. Now, remembering what "Harad" is in LOTR, I am even more intrigued by Tolkien's work with language. Unexpected bonus! [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

Stephanos,

Thanks for that Middle Earth Timeline. That's a good site for several reasons. I would add the Barrow Downs' very own resource here:

Barrow-Downs' Chronology of Middle Earth

PS. Yes, 'substantive' would have had a preferable connotation [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] , but that source of mine didn't use it! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Cimmerian,

Thanks for your clarification. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Bethberry

[ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[Bêthberry]

I'm not vouching for this source, but it is kind of like Coles Notes for Middle Earth. The Table of Contents is humorous. Who would have thought of a planner for Middle Earth weddings?Parma Endorian: Essays on Middle Earth

Bethberry

[Mithadan]

Great thread Bethberry! I wouldn't necessarily vouch for the last source you cite either, but it is creative.

Another potential source for RPGs can be found here: Mirriam-Webster (dictionary and thesaurus).

And this one is great:

Lessons on Swordsmanship courtesy of Maril...

[Child of the 7th Age]

Can we ask questions here about sources? I hope so. We're in the middle of an RPG with a sailing ship. The only problem is I know virtually nothing about sailing, the parts of such a vessel, etc. Does anyone have a link that would be good for getting background information on sailing ships?

By the way, Bethberry, I think this thread is a good idea. I will definitely use it at times.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[Bêthberry]

I used this link once long ago, Child just for help identifying types of ships. 'Bethberry' once sailed in a currach down the Withywindle to the Brandywine as far as Sarn Ford, and boy oh boy ole Tom and Goldberry were not so merry that day.

It is organized mainly by names of ships, so it takes so searching to compile ideas. Somewhere we have links to Viking ships (courtesy of children's research projects) and when I find them, I'll post them.

Probert Encyclopedia--Ships

Bethberry

PS. Mithadan, I'm glad you posted the link to a dictionary/ thesaurus and not me! Thanks for that swordsmanship link. It is fantastic--also great to be able to raid another barrow, as it were.

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[piosenniel]

Here is a link to nautical terminology:
Sailing

[Bêthberry]

General information on horses available at the following sites:

HORSE ANATOMY

Horse breeds

Horse gaits


English tack and grooming vocabulary

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[ October 19, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[Genandra of Mirkwood]

Bethberry, thanks so much for this thread! You've obviously hit a chord with many people who haven't felt represented in either the moderated RPGs or the present ones in Freestyle. Cim, your point is taken, but I think there's room for more than one kind of RPG. And you have to realize that non-Tolkien elements "ruin" a game for some people just as jargon ruins it for you. Fanfic doesn't have the added fun of an interactive collaboration.

Having said all that, here are a few links:
Medieval Close-Fighting Techniques
Medieval Brewing and Winemaking

Earlier someone gave a link to the Sindarin Dictionary (which isn't working today but probably down temporarily). This is a great resource, especially on working out elven or Gondorian names. The name generator doesn't always give out names that have meaning, as Middle Earth names (elven, at least) generally did. For serious ME language people, there is also a Quenya Course, keeping in mind that by the Third Age, Quenya was only a language of lore and poetry:
Quenya Course

Sigrid Unset's novels set in the Middle Ages have also helped me to visualize the society of Middle Earth and are great reading to boot. People (women, probably [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]) who think Tolkien skimped on love stories or told them without enough passion might understand why by reading a medieval love story. Still passionate, but definitely not Hollywood.Kristin Lavransdatter

Lastly, one of my greatest resources for visualizing is traveling in England! As an American I am struck there by the sense of layers of mythic history in many of the places I visited. Not to mention remnants of class structure (different accents! what Tolkien used to distinguish races and classes in ME) and simply the geography. Last but not least, a deeper appreciation for a good pint. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: Genandra of Mirkwood ]

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: Genandra of Mirkwood ]

[Joy]

BethBerry, thank you . As I told Eol, I am not an RPer, but a writer. I am writing a fan fiction currently called "The Jewels of Battle."

Almost every one of your links is needed for my story at this point, and I am sure I will draw upon those others at a later date.

As for your topic, I would like to see more substanial, as you say, RPs. I do like the diaglouge, the description, and the time spent developing a character. To me, it does make a more interesting read.

Would Boromir or Gollum been interesting if they were not as developed as they were. Even someone as minor as Bill Ferny, Haldirm or Hama would not have been remembered if Tolkien had not developed them as well as he did. Even if your character is minor, he or she should be fleshed out, have a sense of character that you can read with just a word, or from the description of their glance.

I do read the RPs for ideas in "pushing" the actions scenes in my story.

Here is a Quenya Dictionary.

[Genandra of Mirkwood]

Thought of another resource- more than once in MUSHing, I've been helped by looking at pictures of medieval tapestries. I think the visual element really helps in picturing in your mind what a ceremony or battle might realistically look like. The link below is the Bayeux tapestry which has all kinds of war scenes:
war tapestry

[Bêthberry]

Thanks for the link to nautical terminology, Piosenniel.

Genandra of Mirkwood, greetings and hello. *curtsies* Yes, I would think that Barrow-Downs is big enough to accommodate several kinds of RPs. I have no time now to explore those resources you provide in depth, but they look marvellous. I, too, find the Bayeux tapestry intriguing--talk about weaving a narrative! Here's a second link to some medieval tapestries in other themes:

Medieval and Renaissance Tapestries

Joy, thanks for your comments and that language link. I agree with you that one of the glories of LOTR is its devotion to depth. Think even of the garrulous Ioreth in the House of Healing! (On that note, I hope your health is improving and you are recovering well.)

I am off again, this time flying--rather than sailing--west. I won't have computer access again until the 22nd, so please by all means don't wait for me if you find something valuable to share.

Bethberry