Sarumon of Many Colours - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

elf-girl-63 · 10-19-2003, 10:14 AM

In my opinion, Sarumon changed his name to signify his growth of importance. Many colours suggests he is in more ocntrol etc. However, why then didn't he change his name to 'Sarumon of All COlours' or soemthing similar? Surely that would signify he is the most important, even if he didn't admit it, it's how he thought of himself.

The only reason I could think of (not counting that Tolkien decided against it) was that other colours were already taken such as Gandalf the White/Grey and Radagast the Brown. However, he separated himself from the Istari and was no longer connected with it when he when he joined forces with Sauron and therfore left hte Council COuld it be that in his heart of hearts, he realised that he could never be really important or powerful? Or simply realsied he was evil?

What are your views?

Sorry, if it doesn't make much sense.

Arwen1858 · 10-19-2003, 01:04 PM

Because Saruman of Many Colours sounds better [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Arwen

Kalimac · 10-19-2003, 01:10 PM

"Saruman of Many Colours" isn't necessarily that different from "All Colours." I doubt that at that point he was thinking "You know, I'd really like all colours, but darn it, Radagast has a lock on brown. Oh well." The point is that since Saruman is taking what he's not entitled to (all those colours) there's no reason that he should suddenly hold back from co-opting Gandalf's and Radagast's as well. I would guess that he, and was called Saruman of Many Colours because (1) no matter the exact number of colours, he still has a lot more than anyone else, and thus by his logic is superior to them, and (2) like Arwen said, it sounds better! Tolkien had undoubtedly heard of Joseph's coat of many colours, so the phrase was probably in his head like that already, so he just wrote it down as "many" instead of "all." Not saying he was consciously ripping off the Bible, just that it is a pre-formed phrase in most of our minds, and that given the choice between "Coat of all colours" and "Coat of many colours" most of us would choose the latter just because it feels more familiar, regardless of how many exact colours the coat has in it.

Lord of Angmar · 10-19-2003, 01:19 PM

Quote:

I doubt that at that point he was thinking "You know, I'd really like all colours, but darn it, Radagast has a lock on brown"

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I agree Kalimac. The "Many Colours" title is one of figurative significance and nothing more. It is a means of (in Saruman's mind) showing his greater power and his evolution from one of the order of the Istari into a hopeful tyrant over Middle Earth.

Darth Mithrandir · 10-20-2003, 02:28 PM

Ever see a rainbow? Its source is none other than white light. Saruman's point was that white could be broken into 'many colors' rather easily. Another issue is that one color apparently had advantages over another. There is yet another color greater than white if I remember correctly. If I'm not mistaken, according to the hierarchy black was yet stronger.

Had white been the strongest of colors, then There would have been lesser problems (or fewer) than confronting the dark lord. Even Radagast the brown could have defeated Sauron if this were the case. Black can not be easily masked, yet it covers over everything (any doubts, just try using a black highlighter next time you study); which brings up another point: A white page is a blank page.

By changing his color, Saruman could have taken advantage of the weaknesses of others in his order; All save Sauron (I'm still looking into the Maiar, of which Saurons order originated).

Olorin_TLA · 10-20-2003, 03:29 PM

Well I don't think literally he would have gained power like that: it was more a reflection of his pride.

He thinks he's growing stronger, by becoming the "lord" of all the Colours; but in actuality his pride splinters his power (and so white to a spectrum) resulting in the end: his pathetic state in RotK.

Finwe · 10-20-2003, 06:19 PM

He changed his color from white to "many colors" because, as you all have said and as Saruman said himself to Gandalf, white is easily overwritten. Saruman wanted to be unique and independent, and show that the rules and regulations that held back the rest of the Istari held no sway over him. Quite an adolescent thing to do, in my opinion.

Angry Hill Troll · 10-20-2003, 07:15 PM

Quote:

white could be broken into 'many colors' rather easily

I think it was Gandalf who said something to the effect that one who breaks a thing to find out what it is made of has left the path of wisdom. Perhaps Saruman's "breaking" of his color scheme is symbolic of his becoming One-of-the-formerly-Wise [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Eggy · 10-21-2003, 11:08 AM

But white light is made of all the other colors, and by being "the white" would he not have the powers of all the other colors aswell?? or am i over simplfing it?

10-21-2003, 11:26 AM

One more thing to consider is that he was under a set of rules while he was in ME. By saying he was "of mainy colors" he was saying he would not stay under these rules, but would use his full power in any way that he pleased.

elf-girl-63 · 10-22-2003, 10:16 AM

Thanks for all your views!!! I hadn't thought of some before, tis good to hear other peoples ideas.

Sarumon of many colours does sound better but thats not necessarily why it was chosen. I mean, think of some of the names people you know (or have heard of) have!!!

I like Kailmac's idea of the Bible thing- it makes sense. I suppose we all use that, don't we?

Feanor of the Peredhil · 10-24-2003, 11:45 AM

Okay... Congratulations me, I do believe this is my 200th post. Now for the question. I'd never really considered it before, but when I read this thread, my ever-scientific mind saw the possibilities of a handy-dandy solution. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been over a year since I learned most of this, so I may be slightly off-kilter.

Look at light: black is the absence of light, thus the synonym for 'evil'. White is made of every color combined, thus the most powerful/heavenly.

When White is "broken into many colors", it is just that- broken. ("He who breaks a thing to see how it works has left the path of wisdom", or something like that.) It is no longer the most powerful.

Saruman the White was the same and yet different as Saruman of Many Colors- as the White, he had characteristics of EVERY color, bound together by his initial goodness. When Saruman was corrupted, the goodness was taken away (see the thread 'All Those Good Guys'... I think it's buried pretty deeply.), and so was the binding of all of his characteristics into who he was: The Head of the White Council, the most powerful Wizard. The binding of goodness gone, Saruman's colors no longer made One; they were left scattered into Many.

So my chemistry class inspired equation:
Saruman the White plus corruption yields Saruman of Many Colors.

Fea

**The Saucepan Man** · 10-24-2003, 07:27 PM

Quote:

White is made of every color combined, thus the most powerful/heavenly.

So why would Saruman voluntarily choose a state (multi-coulured) that was less powerful than his previous state (white)?

Symbolically the theory works well, but not logically.

Kalimac · 10-25-2003, 12:23 AM

Saucepan Man, you could always put it another way; from Saruman's perspective, by breaking the white, he was breaking free of its restrictions (or so he thought) and showing his strength in the process. Previously he was bound by rules, the White Council, and all of that, and now he's a free agent. He's less powerful now, but he feels more so. Sort of like quitting your job on impulse - it feels great for about a day or so, and then reality starts sinking in...wait, lost connections, made some enemies, no income...what did I DO?

10-19-2003, 10:14 AM	#1
elf-girl-63 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Osgiliath Posts: 58	Sarumon of Many Colours In my opinion, Sarumon changed his name to signify his growth of importance. Many colours suggests he is in more ocntrol etc. However, why then didn't he change his name to 'Sarumon of All COlours' or soemthing similar? Surely that would signify he is the most important, even if he didn't admit it, it's how he thought of himself. The only reason I could think of (not counting that Tolkien decided against it) was that other colours were already taken such as Gandalf the White/Grey and Radagast the Brown. However, he separated himself from the Istari and was no longer connected with it when he when he joined forces with Sauron and therfore left hte Council COuld it be that in his heart of hearts, he realised that he could never be really important or powerful? Or simply realsied he was evil? What are your views? Sorry, if it doesn't make much sense. __________________ ~Nuinyulma~ All that is gold does not glitter...

10-19-2003, 01:04 PM	#2
Arwen1858 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 516	Because Saruman of Many Colours sounds better [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Arwen __________________ Will Turner: "This is either madness or brilliance." Jack Sparrow: "It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide." ~ Pirates of the Caribbean

10-19-2003, 01:10 PM	#3
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	"Saruman of Many Colours" isn't necessarily that different from "All Colours." I doubt that at that point he was thinking "You know, I'd really like all colours, but darn it, Radagast has a lock on brown. Oh well." The point is that since Saruman is taking what he's not entitled to (all those colours) there's no reason that he should suddenly hold back from co-opting Gandalf's and Radagast's as well. I would guess that he, and was called Saruman of Many Colours because (1) no matter the exact number of colours, he still has a lot more than anyone else, and thus by his logic is superior to them, and (2) like Arwen said, it sounds better! Tolkien had undoubtedly heard of Joseph's coat of many colours, so the phrase was probably in his head like that already, so he just wrote it down as "many" instead of "all." Not saying he was consciously ripping off the Bible, just that it is a pre-formed phrase in most of our minds, and that given the choice between "Coat of all colours" and "Coat of many colours" most of us would choose the latter just because it feels more familiar, regardless of how many exact colours the coat has in it. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

10-20-2003, 02:28 PM	#5
Darth Mithrandir Pile O'Bones Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Deserted Earth Posts: 18	Ever see a rainbow? Its source is none other than white light. Saruman's point was that white could be broken into 'many colors' rather easily. Another issue is that one color apparently had advantages over another. There is yet another color greater than white if I remember correctly. If I'm not mistaken, according to the hierarchy black was yet stronger. Had white been the strongest of colors, then There would have been lesser problems (or fewer) than confronting the dark lord. Even Radagast the brown could have defeated Sauron if this were the case. Black can not be easily masked, yet it covers over everything (any doubts, just try using a black highlighter next time you study); which brings up another point: A white page is a blank page. By changing his color, Saruman could have taken advantage of the weaknesses of others in his order; All save Sauron (I'm still looking into the Maiar, of which Saurons order originated). __________________ All that glitters is not gold, Nor are we all getting old.

10-20-2003, 03:29 PM	#6
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Well I don't think literally he would have gained power like that: it was more a reflection of his pride. He thinks he's growing stronger, by becoming the "lord" of all the Colours; but in actuality his pride splinters his power (and so white to a spectrum) resulting in the end: his pathetic state in RotK. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

10-20-2003, 06:19 PM	#7
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	He changed his color from white to "many colors" because, as you all have said and as Saruman said himself to Gandalf, white is easily overwritten. Saruman wanted to be unique and independent, and show that the rules and regulations that held back the rest of the Istari held no sway over him. Quite an adolescent thing to do, in my opinion. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

10-21-2003, 11:08 AM	#9
Eggy Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Green land of Ireland Posts: 54	But white light is made of all the other colors, and by being "the white" would he not have the powers of all the other colors aswell?? or am i over simplfing it? __________________ "A dog this good you have to feed every day"Homer Simpson

10-21-2003, 11:26 AM	#10
edhellen heru Guest Posts: n/a	One more thing to consider is that he was under a set of rules while he was in ME. By saying he was "of mainy colors" he was saying he would not stay under these rules, but would use his full power in any way that he pleased.

10-22-2003, 10:16 AM	#11
elf-girl-63 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Osgiliath Posts: 58	Thanks for all your views!!! I hadn't thought of some before, tis good to hear other peoples ideas. Sarumon of many colours does sound better but thats not necessarily why it was chosen. I mean, think of some of the names people you know (or have heard of) have!!! I like Kailmac's idea of the Bible thing- it makes sense. I suppose we all use that, don't we? __________________ ~Nuinyulma~ All that is gold does not glitter...

10-24-2003, 11:45 AM	#12
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Okay... Congratulations me, I do believe this is my 200th post. Now for the question. I'd never really considered it before, but when I read this thread, my ever-scientific mind saw the possibilities of a handy-dandy solution. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been over a year since I learned most of this, so I may be slightly off-kilter. Look at light: black is the absence of light, thus the synonym for 'evil'. White is made of every color combined, thus the most powerful/heavenly. When White is "broken into many colors", it is just that- broken. ("He who breaks a thing to see how it works has left the path of wisdom", or something like that.) It is no longer the most powerful. Saruman the White was the same and yet different as Saruman of Many Colors- as the White, he had characteristics of EVERY color, bound together by his initial goodness. When Saruman was corrupted, the goodness was taken away (see the thread 'All Those Good Guys'... I think it's buried pretty deeply.), and so was the binding of all of his characteristics into who he was: The Head of the White Council, the most powerful Wizard. The binding of goodness gone, Saruman's colors no longer made One; they were left scattered into Many. So my chemistry class inspired equation: Saruman the White plus corruption yields Saruman of Many Colors. Fea __________________ peace

10-25-2003, 12:23 AM	#14
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Saucepan Man, you could always put it another way; from Saruman's perspective, by breaking the white, he was breaking free of its restrictions (or so he thought) and showing his strength in the process. Previously he was bound by rules, the White Council, and all of that, and now he's a free agent. He's less powerful now, but he feels more so. Sort of like quitting your job on impulse - it feels great for about a day or so, and then reality starts sinking in...wait, lost connections, made some enemies, no income...what did I DO? __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.