History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

[The Barrow-Wight]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wraith of Angmar
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To keep the HoME and UT questions isolated from the majority of us that are clueless, I ask that you put your questions here.

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[Saulotus]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

General note:
I think the 'clueless' part was a bit harsh, and seems to be aimed more at 'Tolkien scholars' as an insult than it is implied towards those who haven't read those particular materials mentioned.
I certainly never consider those who haven't read other materials as 'clueless', nor (I hope) do others.
Having read the works of Tolkien that I (and others who feel the same) love, and being given derision for such seems out-of-place, even when it 'appears' to be directed towards those who haven't read everything.
The slight as written; seemingly directed at new-comers to Tolkien, and those who have never read further than HOBBIT or LOTR, seems an overt degredation on attempts at new-membership.
I'm sure if I were new at Tolkien and visiting this board; I'd be slightly offended at someone labelling me 'clueless', and would leave for a less hostile and sarcastic board.

Personal note:
'I' came here (and stayed) because I saw the section on SILMARILLION canon studies, and assumed that a reasonable portion of members present (who are prevelant in other sections of discussion including the Trivia section; as the names are easily recognized) in the relevant discussion section had actually READ HISTORY (or why the attempt at the discussion on canon studies? Something like a person newly comprehending algebra attmpting quantum physics equations; as the case is becoming clear in the 'Have you read...' thread.)

Trivia question:
This trivia question directly qualifies for neither; but I saw no other place for it (however; in a sense, it requires some knowledge of Elvish languages gleaned from HISTORY so this is as applicable as anywhere I guess).

What language did the Elves of Mirkwood speak?

</p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

The 'clueless' in my post above was clearly meaning 'clueless to HoME or UT references if they hadn't read HoME or UT'. It did not imply a complete cluelessness as you suggest. And since I included myself in the 'clueless' category (notice the 'us'), it is especially obvious what I meant. There was no hostility or sarcasm in the remark at all. In fact, I find it offensive that you suggest so. <img src=frown.gif ALT="">

If anyone found the 'clueless' remark as offensive as Saulotus has suggested I'm sure you've left by now and aren't reading this.
Now, that last sentence WAS sarcastic <img src=ohwell.gif ALT=":/">

Let's keep the talk to Tolkien and in an ordered fashion as I have suggested. Those who aren't familiar with the HoME and UT may appreciate that they haven't read through the Silmarillion for an hour looking for an answer that isn't there.

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[Saulotus]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Temper temper.
You prove my point too easily, without reading my post.

I'll refrain from any other direct reply as you suggest.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> by RKITTLE
'Those who aren't familiar with the HoME and UT may appreciate that they haven't read through the Silmarillion for an hour looking for an answer that isn't there.'<hr></blockquote>
Is this in regard to a different trivia question or the one listed above?

Trivia is meant to be obscure.

triv·ia
: unimportant matters
: trivial facts or details
: a quizzing game involving obscure facts

</p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Trivia is meant to be obscure<hr></blockquote>
The trivia at The Barrow-Downs is meant to be fun.

Let's keep it that way.

Is asking to keep the obscure questions separate from the 'common-knowledge' ones really that much to ask??

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[Saulotus]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Nope, not too much at all.
And it was fun.

As you can see, I have done so with this seemingly last posted trivia question of mine.

</p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Indeed, Saulotus did ask a question and I buried it in commentary. here it is. Hopefully last did not mean 'final'.


What language did the Elves of Mirkwood speak?

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[Mithadan]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

I believe the answer is Sindarin. Saul, I believe Rkittle's intentions were good and that no insult was meant (other than self-deprecation).

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[Saulotus]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Sindarin is incorrect.

Since the obvious answer is now given; I'll now add an aid for those who have no desire to search overlong.

Try looking in an index under Thranduil and/or Celeborn, and the answer will become evident.
The quandry now is; which index?

Please remember that I specified that a knowledge of Elvish was needed to answer the question properly.

</p>

[Mithadan]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

OK. Lemberin then (text later emended to Telerian, Peoples of Middle Earth, p.36), but see Peoples of Middle Earth, p. 79 (&quot;In his realm and in Lorien both the Sindarin and woodland tongues were heard&quot. Which is &quot;canon&quot;?

The above is the reason why HoME questions should not go all across the quiz boards. Not everyone has the volumes, not everyone wants to but people still want to ask and answer questions without feeling intimidated or lacking of expertise. For good or ill, not all posters here are like you and I, having the time and money to collect so many volumes of works by one author. Be cool. <img src=smile.gif ALT="">







--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[Saulotus]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

I was actually pulling from LETTERS.

LETTER #347 (dated 1972, superceeding yet confirming HISTORY text)
footnote within text by author:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> 'The Silvan Elves of Thranduil's Realm did not speak S. (Sindarin) but a related language or dialect.'<hr></blockquote>
The related language is indeed Old Telerin from whence derived Sindarin.

As for which is canon; I think it's obvious now, especially as the page citation you give is related to development of the Appendices of LOTR.

Answers can be found in more than one locale, if you know where to look.

Ask away.

</p>

[Mithadan]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

What did the Noldor call the people of Cirdan?

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[Sharkû]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Falathrim? That is Sindarin; Quenya would be Falasserimbe...?

<h6> By showing our resistance to the people, we kindle the fire within the people. </h6></p>

[Mithadan]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Falathrim or Faladrim is Sindarin, however, the Noldor had a different name. Try late HoME volumes.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[Mithadan]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 305</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

It appears a hint is needed. OK guys. Try HoME 12, Peoples of Middle Earth.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Mithadan has increased his post count by over two hundred and still no reply. I can't answer for I don't have HoME 12; but I'll bet someone can.

Gwaihir the Windlord http://www.barrowdowns.comthe barrow-downs</A>
<FONT size="2.5">'Sing now, ye people of the Tower of Anor,
for the Realm of Sauron is ended for ever,
and the Dark Tower is thrown down.'
</p>

[HerenIstarion]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

ok, here it is: Falmari meaning &quot;people of the waves&quot; or &quot;wave-people&quot;

<a href=http://www.geocities.com/gl_century/HerenIstarion.html>HerenIstarion</a></p>

[HerenIstarion]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

almost quoting Gwaihir - I've increased my post count by 100 and...

<a href=http://www.geocities.com/gl_century/HerenIstarion.html>HerenIstarion</a></p>

[Mithadan]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

So sorry all. Forgot about this rather dusty thread. Correct answer H-I. Proceed.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[HerenIstarion]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

aiye, ok. Who were the Balchoth?

<a href=http://www.geocities.com/gl_century/HerenIstarion.html>HerenIstarion</a> ...without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless...</p>

[Voronwe]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Were they Easterlings (the ones that Eorl fought at the Field of Celebrant)?

By the way, H-I, it is your turn in the 'Tuor' thread.


-Voronwë
<font size="2">"For Aldarion had become enamoured of the Great Sea, and of a ship riding there alone without sight of land, borne by the winds with foam at its throat to coasts and havens unguessed; and that love and desire never left him until his life's end."</p>

[HerenIstarion]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

right, folk native to wainriders they are indeed. ask us

btw, I look in it now

<a href=http://www.geocities.com/gl_century/Heren.html>HerenIstarion</a> ...without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless...</p>

[Voronwe]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 162</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

What item was Sador forced to use for fire-wood?


-Voronwë
<font size="2">"For Aldarion had become enamoured of the Great Sea, and of a ship riding there alone without sight of land, borne by the winds with foam at its throat to coasts and havens unguessed; and that love and desire never left him until his life's end."</p>

[Grond]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 179</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

The chair he had made for Hurin?

</p>

[Voronwe]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Correct.


-Voronwë
<font size="2">"For Aldarion had become enamoured of the Great Sea, and of a ship riding there alone without sight of land, borne by the winds with foam at its throat to coasts and havens unguessed; and that love and desire never left him until his life's end."</p>

[Grond]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Who where the fellows of Eärendil when he arrived to Valinor?

</p>

[Grond]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 240</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

This question has proved to be difficult, so I'll pass the turn to anyone who names one of Earendil's three fellows.

</p>

[Beregond]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Falathar, Erellont, and Aerandir. <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

</p>

[Grond]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 251</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

If you knew the answer, why didn't you answer before the question? <img src=tongue.gif ALT=":b"> Ask away.

</p>

[Telchar]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Beregond? Where are you?

</p>

[Beregond]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Opps, sorry! What are the Gates of Morning?

</p>

[Telchar]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 268</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Gate in the wall of night in the far east of ME through which that sun passed?
(this would only have existed in the 1st and 2nd age of the Sun)

Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>

[Beregond]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Correct!

</p>

[Telchar]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 272</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Who was Estelmo?

Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>

[Telchar]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 327</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

A CLUE: HE WAS &quot;BURRIED&quot; ALIVE

Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>

[amyrlis]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

The Esquire of Elendil. (I haven't read that part yet, so I cheated and looked up his name on the Annals) <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

-amyrlis <Br>These are indeed strange days. Dreams and legends spring to life out of the grass. -Eomer</p>

[Telchar]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

You are very vey very close - but not correct!

Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>

[amyrlis]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Okay, I've got it now - the Annals are incorrect! He was the Esquire of Elendur. And he was the only (or one of three, found differing accounts on the Annals) survivor of the Disaster of the Gladden Fields, having been stunned by a club and &quot;buried&quot; under the body of Elendur.

-amyrlis <Br>These are indeed strange days. Dreams and legends spring to life out of the grass. -Eomer</p>

[Telchar]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

Correct <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> - Go on!

Anar kaluva tielyanna!</p>

[amyrlis]

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Re: History of Middle Earth and Unfinished Tales

This one's from UT: How many years did the unusually long betrothal (engagement) of Erendis and Aldarion last?

-amyrlis <Br>These are indeed strange days. Dreams and legends spring to life out of the grass. -Eomer</p>