Writers and Tolkien

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

I know that there have been several threads about trying to avoid copying Tolkien in one's writing, such as "Are You Writing Serious Fantasy?". But my question is rather different. In my travels through the Downs and my meetings and friendships with other Tolkien fans, I have noticed one recurring theme: Many Tolkien fans are also aspiring writers. Why is this? Are people who have a natural talent or bent for writing drawn to Tolkien's works for some reason? Or does the reading and studying of such great works inspire us to write as well? Or is it all just a strange coincidence? One may very well wonder.

So, why do you enjoy writing? How do you find your writing experiences relate to Tolkien's own? Do you find that LOTR has influenced you in any way, and if so, how?
What genre do you prefer to write, and how does this connect to your love for Tolkien's works, if at all? And, finally, how have Tolkien's works inspired you to become a better writer?

[ September 03, 2003: Message edited by: Luthien_ Tinuviel ]

[Kaiserin]

Tolkien is an amazing writer, that is why, I believe, those who read his work are inspired to create masterpieces of their own (that is how it is with me, at least). Especially fascinating is his ability to create an entire world (cultures, history, language and all) and make it all appear coherent and real - the readers' desire to extend their own experience of Middle Earth (or a least, some place like it) encourage them to write their own tales.

I've also observed that those who are able to highly appreciate Tolkien's writing (that is, people who don't say "Tolkien's books are stooopid) happen to have, er, above average intelligence (or higher) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] - and therefore, the capacity to come up with great writing themselves.

[Meela]

I've been writing fantasy all my life, so Tolkien hasn't affected me that much, nor has he inspired me to begin writing. But he did inspire me to go deeper into histories, languages, etc., and also to not be afraid to use existing works as a basis for my story.

I've also observed that those who are able to highly appreciate Tolkien's writing (that is, people who don't say "Tolkien's books are stooopid) happen to have, er, above average intelligence (or higher) - and therefore, the capacity to come up with great writing themselves

I appreciate this statement, but I wish to make a small, unimportant observation regarding myself.
I may be highly intelligent, but only in certain ways. I have great trouble with 'deep thinking', which is why I am abandoning all attempts to integrate myself into the books forum. Also, I don't like Tolkien's work enough to wish to over-analyse it in the way they do in that forum. So I suppose I don't really appreciate Tolkien's work that much. Or I do, I certainly appreciate them, but not perhaps in the way others do that allows them the staus of a highly intelligent person. If you take my meaning on that very muddled paragraph.
But regardless of my below average intelligence, I not only regard myself as a good, if not very good, writer, but I have been told by people who know what good writing is that I am a good writer.

So I am sort of an exception to the statement.

[Arwen Eruantale]

I have often noticed this myself, Luthien. Though I had also dismissed it as coincidence or 'just me'. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
And I have also wondered how many true Tolkienites (that is both book and movie fans) are homeschooled...

I have been writing since I could lift a pencil. And fantasy has been my passion even longer. Fairy tales and Robin Hood and King Arthur and any mythologies and Science Fiction have all but consumed me. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
I am not only greatly indebted to the remarkable Professor Tolkien for any praise as to my writing abilities and/or style, but also to his friend, C.S. Lewis. They are undoubtedly equals atop of my list of essentials.

[Helín Anyára]

Hmmm... One may indeed very well wonder, Luthien. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] As I am relatively new to this forum, I had not yet noticed such a trend. But- as I fit into this category, I can relate somewhat to your question.

I have loved books before I could even speak (literally). My mom tells stories of me sitting before I could walk in enraptured contentment as she read Mickey Mouse and Dr. Suess. I enjoyed and excelled in every subject in my first few years of school, but writing, now that I look back, was my favorite; an assigned 1-2 page story would be 9 or 10 for me.

Years later I became involved and aborbed in other activities, and did very little writing outside of the reports, etc. of school. A couple years ago the urge finally overcame me once again; it has grown from the first tentative words of *Chapter 1* to my own consuming, fulfilling, (and at times seemingly odd) passion. At about the same time, I began read Tolkien's Hobbit and Lord of the Rings for the first time.

So, reading them did not kindle my love for writing, but it has indeed added, and continues to add, fuel to the fire. Every time I read even a part of the books or see one of the movies, I realize more and more the vastness of Tolkein's gift and his works; and the potential fruit of a passion called writing. Though I doubt I shall ever measure up to his amazing accomplishments, reading his works makes me realize just how far I might aspire, while believing, somehow, that it is possible to attain, or at least unquestionably worth attempting.

"Someone who aims for the stars, and only reaches the moon, as at least gone further than one who has never tried..."

[DaughterofVana]

My love for the books isn't so whistful as that of everyone else (IE, no "fond memories from childhood," etc... I was reading myself to sleep when I was younger, rather than my parents taking me to Middle Earth at night!). I love LOTR because I love a good book, and that's really as deep as it goes. I started writing my own stories at thirteen because I couldn't find any books that rivaled the stories I was making up with my barbies... and, deciding thirteen was too old for barbies, I started typing them down instead. Six years later I'm glad I didn't find out about Tolkien (and Lewis) sooner; I don't think I would have ever written as many books and short-stories as I did.

Though I admire Tolkien (well, struck dumb by him, actually) at his ability to flesh out a world with a history for his characters, it bares noting that he keeps all the "deep stuff" for the appendicies--the history adds flavor to the story, and not vice versa. The histories, really, are grace notes in the symphony, and should be read as such--at least the first time around. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Only later does one go back and realize that the grace notes are a tune to themselves. This is really what seperates him from other fantasy writers, who clumsily write on such a grand scale (ironically, perhaps trying for what Tolkien attained gracefully) that it's hard to keep a story going with all the background. It's all well and good if the conquests of the protagonist's father's half-brother was important to character development, but sometimes it's much too much and becomes almost painful to wade through. Can't think of any names right now, but I'm sure someone out there knows what I'm talking about.

-'Vana

[Rilarien884]

I know that by reading Tolkien I was inspired to write better and put more thought into what I was putting on paper. Instead of just the normal blah-blah-blah of some stories and books, Tolkien created a world with history and depth. There is so much more beyond the actual story! It is an inspiration for aspiring writing because it goes past the normal mold of what we perceive writing to be.

I personally never read fantasy before I picked up Tolkien, and, I admit, the only reason I did pick it up was because of the first movie. I was stuck in the mode of Michael Critchon and John Grisham, who write some pretty darn good stuff if you're into it, but they dont "create" like Tolkien did.

Anyway, after my utter ramblings...I hope this kind of answers your questions...

AL

[Daisy Brambleburr]

I have been writing since I could lift a pencil. And fantasy has been my passion even longer. Fairy tales and Robin Hood and King Arthur and any mythologies and Science Fiction have all but consumed me.

That's just like me. I've always been fascinated by King Arthur, when I was little I used to spend ages making my own books out of folded pieces of paper. I wrote stories about my 'puppy in my pockets', I hammered away for ages at my grandmas old trypewriter. I made up a fantasy land that my cuddly animals would visit. I always loved fantasy. I read all the Narnia books and one Christmas my mum got me the Fellowship of the Ring, and I loved it.

I've also observed that those who are able to highly appreciate Tolkien's writing (that is, people who don't say "Tolkien's books are stooopid) happen to have, er, above average intelligence (or higher) - and therefore, the capacity to come up with great writing themselves

I guess that your idea is true in some people, but doesn't apply to everyone. But I know that not everyone can enjoy Tolkien, my mum doesn't like it (too many funny names, too many characters, too many places, weird languages) and all my friends say 'booooring'.

And Meela, I totally understand your 'muddled paragraph'. And I can identify with you as well. I tried to post in the Books forum but got moved to Novices and Newcomers. I can never analyse Tolkien's work too deeply, I feel that too much delving can spoil it. And I don't consider myself to be very intelligent. I recently got my GCSE results and the only think I really did well in was English. The only A* I got was in creative writing, while most of my friends got a*'s in most of their subjects. My other grades were mostly c's, but with a D in maths (oh poo.) So I guess I've gotta be good at something.

But I do love writing, and it's been my ambition since I was about 9 to get my work published. And although I have always wanted to be a writer Tolkien influenced me to write fantasy. I think to create your own world is so amazing, and to let other people share it is better still.

Fantasy can inspire many people, it's just the way it is. If you write fantasy, one of the best things is that you can make it seem completely unreal and people can love it. With Lord of the Rings, it can really get people to think about how far they can expand their train of thought for fantasy. I'm not sure if this answers your question or not, but i wanted to put this in.

[Daisy Brambleburr]

Or perhaps there's a more simple explanation (I hope I'm not being *too* simple and I hope that someone hasn't already said it).
People who write fantasy are attracted to Tolkien's work because it is fantasy. Perhaps some people wrote fantasy before they read Tolkien, not the other way around.

[Helín Anyára]

It is an inspiration for aspiring writing because it goes past the normal mold of what we perceive writing to be.

This is very true. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I can safely say that I have taken on new challenges and *aspirations* in my writing because of seeing, through Tolkien, aspects of writing I might never have thought to include; i.e. languages, poetry, etc.

I have also realized how to get over my fear of doing this; of writing what I love! That, at least, has been a sort of tripping block for me. There will always be someone (many "someones", actually) whom my writing doesn't please; people who think it is dull or tedious, as many think even now of Tolkien. In his own words:

"It is perhaps not possible in a long tale to please everybody at all points, or to displease everybody at the same points; for I find from the letters that I have recieved that the passages or chapters that are to some a blemish are by all others specially approved."

I'm sorry if this is a bit of a rabbit trail from the original intent of this thread; these are just other thoughts on how Tolkien has affected me...

[Arwen Eruantale]

I have taken on new challenges and *aspirations* in my writing because of seeing, through Tolkien, aspects of writing I might never have thought to include; i.e. languages, poetry, etc.

Yeah, I can definitely identify with that, Helin. Ha! ha! (as a Frum would say)
At least he showed me how to properly incorporate such things as creative language and poetry or songs, as well as developing it's own history and lore.
In fact, that process seemed quite natural and automatic, it even surpassed neccesity to eventually become essential after reading Tolkien...

I have also realized how to get over my fear of doing this; of writing what I love! That, at least, has been a sort of tripping block for me. There will always be someone (many "someones", actually) whom my writing doesn't please; people who think it is dull or tedious, as many think even now of Tolkien.

I actually never had much of the George McFly problem. That whole rejection syndrome... I'm a bit too phlegmatic to give a care most of the time. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Mine was getting over the desire to keep it to myself, as my own- of you will. (no pun intended) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ September 02, 2003: Message edited by: Arwen Eruantale ]

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

Yay! Replies to my thread! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] And so many so soon! Thank you, all of you. Your posts were quite interesting.

I have taken on new challenges and *aspirations* in my writing because of seeing, through Tolkien, aspects of writing I might never have thought to include; i.e. languages, poetry, etc.

Yes, these things are quite good in writing. I am not at the moment attempting to create my own language, because even though I enjoy and am good at learning languages, I do not feel that I have the understanding and experience in linguistics necessary to create a language of my own (at least not now). The poetry I don't really have either (not yet, anyway) but I belive that it adds a good touch.

People who write fantasy are attracted to Tolkien's work because it is fantasy. Perhaps some people wrote fantasy before they read Tolkien, not the other way around.

This only sort of applies in my case. I tend to write fantasy or mock history, leaning more towards the mock historic side. My best tale so far has no fantastic elements, but rather a history filled with tales of fantastic and heroic nature, some of which are my other stories.

But I do love writing, and it's been my ambition since I was about 9 to get my work published. And although I have always wanted to be a writer Tolkien influenced me to write fantasy. I think to create your own world is so amazing, and to let other people share it is better still.

I believe most of us aspire to be published one day, I know I certainly have that as one of my goals. For one's tales to be appreciated by others-that would be truly wonderful.

I've also observed that those who are able to highly appreciate Tolkien's writing (that is, people who don't say "Tolkien's books are stooopid) happen to have, er, above average intelligence (or higher) - and therefore, the capacity to come up with great writing themselves.

I find that is often the case. I belive that many different people and types of people can appreciate Tolkien's work, but I think that those who truly appreciate it for what it is are those who are inclined to be intelligent and emotional (like myself).

"Someone who aims for the stars, and only reaches the moon, as at least gone further than one who has never tried..."

Lovely quote, by the way.

The histories, really, are grace notes in the symphony, and should be read as such--at least the first time around. Only later does one go back and realize that the grace notes are a tune to themselves.

Very nice way of putting that. It's very true in regards to Tolkien. I wish my own work was or is like that, at least in some way.

Fairy tales and Robin Hood and King Arthur and any mythologies and Science Fiction have all but consumed me.

All of these are some of my favorites. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

But Tolkien has inspired me to try languages, deep history, song, the significance of my fantasy world and many other things I would have otherwise completely overlooked.

I have a rather interesting element in most of my stories: all are set in different time periods, but they have a link-they all involve the history of a certain realm called Bedevere. This link is not yet very far developed, but I guess I'll get there eventually. I write in a rather odd way: things just come to me, when I'm have my "writer's fever". I then go back and sort things out (sometimes), or else wait until the answers come to me (most of the time).

I write because I enjoy it. I love to write, plain and simple. I think I've been inspired by Tolkien to add depth and emotion, and write as it comes to me. But I still don't know why I like to write-it might have something to do with my equal passion for reading. If that is the case, does reading necessarily make one a writer? I read Tolkien before I developed any real stories of my own, so I wonder-did LOTR inspire me to write? My whole Bedevere thing actually began with a writing assignment in fifth grade, but is the urge to create something good, deep, and lasting something I got from Tolkien?

I try to work my own wonderings, thoughts and emotions into the characters of my stories. In this way I figure it is self-expression, and I do it for my own sake and for the sake of the tale, not for anyone else's benefit. I think that makes a truly wonderful story and author-to write for its own sake, and not really worry about what other people think. A tale written to please others might be skewed from its original purpose. But those are just my thoughts on the matter, and I seem to be ranting. Sorry this is so long, it must be a pain to read. I look forward to hearing other's thoughts on these matters, though. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ September 02, 2003: Message edited by: Luthien_ Tinuviel ]

[Arwen Eruantale]

I write because I enjoy it. I love to write, plain and simple. I think I've been inspired by Tolkien to add depth and emotion, and write as it comes to me. But I still don't know why I like to write- it might have something to do with my equal passion for reading. If that is the case, does reading necessarily make one a writer?.... is the urge to create something good, deep, and lasting something I got from Tolkien?

You cannot possibly know how much I completely identify with all of that, Luthien.

I don't understand either why I have such a passion to create in the form of word on paper.
To create pictures with words that hold more depth, feeling, thought, truth, and life than any drawing could ever hope to portray is one of my most ardent desires. To give something to the reader that causes profound thought, and invokes deep memory.
That is what Tolkien has done for me, in causing all these things he has inspired me to press on -knowing that I could probably never equal (much less rival) his own genius- but to try, if only to find my own happiness in the creation, and discovery, of my own realm- and it has, and is, happening for me, in much the same way I believe it did for him. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

and it has, and is, happening for me, in much the same way I believe it did for him.

I've noticed that in my own work, Arwen. It's kind of scary, but also very exciting. One can really tell that this thread is full of writers-you all have such excellent and beautiful ways of putting things, and everything just seems to flow. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Arwen Eruantale]

Thanks, Luthien. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

"Writing a long and substantial book is like having a friend and companion at your side, to whom you can always turn for comfort and amusement, and whose society becomes more attractive as a new and widening field of interest is lighted in the mind."
- Winston Churchill

Just thought you might enjoy that. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Incidentally, I came upon it after my last post.

Another thing is that I have seen myself mirrored in many of my characters. It is very strange.
And I have also seen similarities in them to other people that I know. (funny that it is not the other way around)
It is quite interesting, and bewildering at times, but of course, perfectly enjoyable as a whole. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

EDIT:Was that off-topic? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[ September 03, 2003: Message edited by: Arwen Eruantale ]