Dwarf Runes Punctuation - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

05-25-2003, 03:26 PM

Hi. I'm very interested in the dwarf runes used in The Hobbit, and I was wondering how punctuation differs. A single dot seems to equal a comma, and two dots seem to represent a period. But that eliminates a lot of other possible punctuations such as question marks and colons . . .

Scott · 05-25-2003, 07:19 PM

Well as I look in my LoTR appendices, I don't see any symbols for puncuation in the Angerthas (Dwarvish Runes).
However, I know that when using the Tengwar to write, a period is represented by two dots (a colon of sorts) and a comma is represented by one dot (like our common period). There are some other punctuations for exclamation marks and queries, but as to colons and semicolons, there are no accepted ones to my knowledge. I just don't think that they were worked in to his (Tolkien's)alphabets or that with the styles of writing presented, they weren't really needed.
I of course could be wrong as I am no authority on the subject. But I am interested in where you found puctuation for the Angerthas... I think I'm gonna have to check for myself at my fav. sites as well.
Thanks for the intrigue, and welcome to the Downs. I hope you're enjoying your death (just a way we refer to ourselves at the Downs - being dead, that is)!
~Scott
_________________________________
Ok, I just went to www.omniglot.com and I found a page on writing with the Angerthas (or Cirth). This site does say that words are to be sepaated by dots, but doesn't say anything about double-dot action.
Hope this helps a bit.

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Scott ]

the guy who be short · 05-26-2003, 05:04 AM

in the appendices there is a question mark in the angerthas. have a look

Selmo · 05-27-2003, 03:12 AM

Templeton asked about the runes in The Hobbit.
They're not the Angerthas runes.
In The Hobbit Tolkien used the runes that were used in North-west Europe before the introduction of the Latin script.

Selmo.

Scott · 05-27-2003, 04:08 PM

The Guy Who be Short,
I think I might have a different edition of the appendices than you, my copy doesn't show any punctuation.

And Selmo,
I wasn't aware that they were two different scripts. I know that Tolkien's Angerthas (or Cirth) were supposed to be different from the other european runes they resembled (at least in "The Lord of the Rings"), but I wasn't aware that the ones in "The Hobbit" were any different.

~Scott

Selmo · 05-28-2003, 02:42 AM

At the begining of my edition of The Hobbit there's a note by Tolkien explaining that he has used Anglo-Saxon runes on the Dwarves treasure map.

The runes are the same shapes as those in Lord of the Rings but they have completely different sound values.

An internet search for Futharc runes should give all the details.

the guy who be short · 06-01-2003, 02:31 PM

In the angerthas, i think 1 dot is the end of a word and 4 is the end of a sentence. Hope that helps.
I didnt say there was punctuation in my appendices, i said a question mark. Theres also a rune for the word "and".
As for commas, Ive looked around a bit, and i think that they just ignored them in Angerthas. As in, they didnt put them in, and a complex sentence flowed like a simple one.

the guy who be short · 06-02-2003, 10:33 AM

It seemed inappropriate to start another thread when we already have one on runes (even if they are different runes).
Can anybody tell me how to pronounce the strange runes? like o with two dots over it, or e underlined?

Ophelia · 06-04-2003, 02:40 PM

Don't know what good it could be but I know Viking runes and to write some words in 'em but not that pronunciation thing . [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

05-25-2003, 03:26 PM	#1
Templeton Guest Posts: n/a	Dwarf Runes Punctuation Hi. I'm very interested in the dwarf runes used in The Hobbit, and I was wondering how punctuation differs. A single dot seems to equal a comma, and two dots seem to represent a period. But that eliminates a lot of other possible punctuations such as question marks and colons . . .

05-25-2003, 07:19 PM	#2
Scott Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ohio/Grey Havens Posts: 183	Well as I look in my LoTR appendices, I don't see any symbols for puncuation in the Angerthas (Dwarvish Runes). However, I know that when using the Tengwar to write, a period is represented by two dots (a colon of sorts) and a comma is represented by one dot (like our common period). There are some other punctuations for exclamation marks and queries, but as to colons and semicolons, there are no accepted ones to my knowledge. I just don't think that they were worked in to his (Tolkien's)alphabets or that with the styles of writing presented, they weren't really needed. I of course could be wrong as I am no authority on the subject. But I am interested in where you found puctuation for the Angerthas... I think I'm gonna have to check for myself at my fav. sites as well. Thanks for the intrigue, and welcome to the Downs. I hope you're enjoying your death (just a way we refer to ourselves at the Downs - being dead, that is)! ~Scott _________________________________ Ok, I just went to www.omniglot.com and I found a page on writing with the Angerthas (or Cirth). This site does say that words are to be sepaated by dots, but doesn't say anything about double-dot action. Hope this helps a bit. [ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Scott ] __________________ Those who the Gods would destroy, They first make mad. ~Those Crazy Greeks

05-27-2003, 04:08 PM	#5
Scott Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ohio/Grey Havens Posts: 183	The Guy Who be Short, I think I might have a different edition of the appendices than you, my copy doesn't show any punctuation. And Selmo, I wasn't aware that they were two different scripts. I know that Tolkien's Angerthas (or Cirth) were supposed to be different from the other european runes they resembled (at least in "The Lord of the Rings"), but I wasn't aware that the ones in "The Hobbit" were any different. ~Scott __________________ Those who the Gods would destroy, They first make mad. ~Those Crazy Greeks

06-04-2003, 02:40 PM	#9
Ophelia Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: somewhere between the sacred , silence and sweet . Posts: 169	Don't know what good it could be but I know Viking runes and to write some words in 'em but not that pronunciation thing . [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ I didn't lose my mind . It was mine to give away .

05-26-2003, 05:04 AM	#3
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	in the appendices there is a question mark in the angerthas. have a look

05-27-2003, 03:12 AM	#4
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	Templeton asked about the runes in The Hobbit. They're not the Angerthas runes. In The Hobbit Tolkien used the runes that were used in North-west Europe before the introduction of the Latin script. Selmo.

05-28-2003, 02:42 AM	#6
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	At the begining of my edition of The Hobbit there's a note by Tolkien explaining that he has used Anglo-Saxon runes on the Dwarves treasure map. The runes are the same shapes as those in Lord of the Rings but they have completely different sound values. An internet search for Futharc runes should give all the details.

06-01-2003, 02:31 PM	#7
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	In the angerthas, i think 1 dot is the end of a word and 4 is the end of a sentence. Hope that helps. I didnt say there was punctuation in my appendices, i said a question mark. Theres also a rune for the word "and". As for commas, Ive looked around a bit, and i think that they just ignored them in Angerthas. As in, they didnt put them in, and a complex sentence flowed like a simple one.

06-02-2003, 10:33 AM	#8
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	It seemed inappropriate to start another thread when we already have one on runes (even if they are different runes). Can anybody tell me how to pronounce the strange runes? like o with two dots over it, or e underlined?