Origins of Orcs - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ashton · 02-02-2004, 02:03 PM

I have researched this out on this forum, but I am still kind of confused. Could you explain the origins of orcs in a "Newbie" way. It says on the movies that Orcs are were origionally elves. WHAT?? I am so confused. Also if they were origionally elves, does this mean that they live forever??

Mad Baggins · 02-02-2004, 02:16 PM

Okay. In the beginning, Elves were captured by Morgoth (the Original Dark Lord) and tortured and mutilated, creating Orcs. Those Orcs then multiplied and made more Orcs, et cetera, and they come to the Orcs we know and love. As for the living forever part, I don't think they are immortal. But don't trust me on that.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 3:17 PM February 02, 2004: Message edited by: Mad Baggins ]

luthien-elvenprincess · 02-02-2004, 02:50 PM

In the first age of Stars, Melkor captured some Elves, took them to Utumno and "twisted" them into the race of Orcs through the "slow arts of cruelty". He ruined their forms through hideous acts of torture. The only joy they now could obtain was through the pain of others.
From these elves-turned-to-orcs, Melkor breed an entire race of slaves for himself. They survived, generation after generation, until the War of the Ring.

Elves were immortal and ageless, yet they could be destroyed...slain with fire or in battle, murdered, even die from extreme grief. I assume that orcs kept this aspect of their once-elven being.

Kransha · 02-02-2004, 03:17 PM

Long Story (I hope this is accurate)

Well, there are different kinds of orcs, as you probably guessed.

Orcs were bred in the pits of Utumno from tortured and mangled elves after being captured by Morgoth/Melkor. They split into a number of race strains that survived the chaining of Melkor and spread throughout Middle-Earth.

-Hobgoblins
A pre-Isengard equivalent of Uruk-hai. They are larger than regular orcs and are technically uruks. They were the largest existing orcs before Uruk-hai. They apparently have existed since the orc breedings of Melkor

Quote:

Orc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds)

-Preface to the Hobbit

-Uruk-hai
You can probably figure out what these are. Bred by Saruman and Sauron, Uruk-hai are larger, stronger, and fine with sunlight. That is self explanatory. Also called Great Orcs.

Quote:

Great Orcs, that kind is stronger and more fell than all others

-Half-orcs
Half orcs are supposedly another unsuccessful half-breed of Saruman. Another sunlight resistant breed, half-orcs, or goblin-men, are just another failed experiment, present only at the Battle of Helm's Deep where they were all killed by Huorns.

Quote:

But these creatures of Isengard, these half-orcs and goblin-men that the foul craft of Saruman has bred, they will not quail at the sun

-TTT, Helm's Deep

-Olag-hai
Not often mentioned, but particularly strong. These were bred during the War of the Ring, a mix of troll and uruk. They were larger and stronger (the strongest orcs in existence), but far stupider.

-Snaga
Regular orcs, but lesser. These were probably Melkor's strain, now in the service of Sauron. They were slaves and cannon fodder, but there were many of them.

Firefoot · 02-02-2004, 06:37 PM

Orc immortality was discussed here. Other than that, yes to whatever everyone else has said. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

lore_master · 02-02-2004, 07:48 PM

Uruk-Hai were orcs bred with men wernt they?, i think it says something like that in the books, but im not sure

Mad Baggins · 02-03-2004, 11:29 AM

No, Uruks were Orcs bred with Goblins.

***Sharkû*** · 02-04-2004, 02:48 AM

Repeat after me: "Forum archive index".

Isowen · 08-10-2004, 05:50 AM

Everything sounds right here. But, the orcs and Uruk-hai are not immortal. The original elves, and by that I mean the very elves who were captured by Morgoth, decided to give up their immortal lives because they were becoming so evil and impure, so that if they did live forever, they knew that they would be used to wreak havoc on Middle-Earth. Their "children" were not given an immortal life as they were no longer elves and their "parents" had no immortal life either and so on and so on.
This is all very complicated but I'm sure it says it all in "The treason of Isengard." But I'm not sure, I just thought I'd throw that in there.

02-02-2004, 02:03 PM	#1
Ashton Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Middle Earth (Where else would I be?) Posts: 33	Origins of Orcs I have researched this out on this forum, but I am still kind of confused. Could you explain the origins of orcs in a "Newbie" way. It says on the movies that Orcs are were origionally elves. WHAT?? I am so confused. Also if they were origionally elves, does this mean that they live forever?? __________________ Eat, Drink and be Merry......or Pippin.

02-02-2004, 02:16 PM	#2
Mad Baggins Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: A place where after thunder golden showers come falling like a rain of flowers. Posts: 371	Okay. In the beginning, Elves were captured by Morgoth (the Original Dark Lord) and tortured and mutilated, creating Orcs. Those Orcs then multiplied and made more Orcs, et cetera, and they come to the Orcs we know and love. As for the living forever part, I don't think they are immortal. But don't trust me on that. <font size=1 color=339966>[ 3:17 PM February 02, 2004: Message edited by: Mad Baggins ] __________________ I like buying snacks from a vending machine because food is better when it falls. Sometimes at the grocery, I'll drop a candy bar so that it will achieve its maximum flavor potential.

02-02-2004, 02:50 PM	#3
luthien-elvenprincess Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: what are you doing here? did you come here to eat my popcorn? Posts: 1,031	In the first age of Stars, Melkor captured some Elves, took them to Utumno and "twisted" them into the race of Orcs through the "slow arts of cruelty". He ruined their forms through hideous acts of torture. The only joy they now could obtain was through the pain of others. From these elves-turned-to-orcs, Melkor breed an entire race of slaves for himself. They survived, generation after generation, until the War of the Ring. Elves were immortal and ageless, yet they could be destroyed...slain with fire or in battle, murdered, even die from extreme grief. I assume that orcs kept this aspect of their once-elven being. __________________ York Peppermint Patties taste better than Pearson's Peppermint Patties! But, Junior Mints are the best!

02-02-2004, 07:48 PM	#6
lore_master Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Valhalla Posts: 116	Uruk-Hai were orcs bred with men wernt they?, i think it says something like that in the books, but im not sure __________________ As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. Jump. It is not as wide as you think

02-03-2004, 11:29 AM	#7
Mad Baggins Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: A place where after thunder golden showers come falling like a rain of flowers. Posts: 371	No, Uruks were Orcs bred with Goblins. __________________ I like buying snacks from a vending machine because food is better when it falls. Sometimes at the grocery, I'll drop a candy bar so that it will achieve its maximum flavor potential.

02-02-2004, 06:37 PM	#5
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	Orc immortality was discussed here. Other than that, yes to whatever everyone else has said. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

02-04-2004, 02:48 AM	#8
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	Repeat after me: "Forum archive index".

08-10-2004, 05:50 AM	#9
Isowen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The blackened depths Posts: 86	Everything sounds right here. But, the orcs and Uruk-hai are not immortal. The original elves, and by that I mean the very elves who were captured by Morgoth, decided to give up their immortal lives because they were becoming so evil and impure, so that if they did live forever, they knew that they would be used to wreak havoc on Middle-Earth. Their "children" were not given an immortal life as they were no longer elves and their "parents" had no immortal life either and so on and so on. This is all very complicated but I'm sure it says it all in "The treason of Isengard." But I'm not sure, I just thought I'd throw that in there. __________________ I hope Butterbur sends this promptly. A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber -room: Thing wanted always burried, If he forgets, I shall roast him.