Why couldn't sauron make more rings of power? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar · 12-14-2003, 04:23 PM

Someone might have already made a topic about this, and there might be an article, but i DID do a search.

Why couldn't sauron make more rings of power? This is probably a stupid question, but I have read Sil and LotR, and, as far as i can remember, the answer is not there.

Lord of Angmar · 12-14-2003, 07:42 PM

There are a number of reasons why he made no more Rings of Power. First of all, after he created the One, he was revealed as Sauron to the peoples of Middle-earth, so no one would henceforth be willing to accept a Ring of Power from him if he offered. He could not make another ring akin to the One Ring probably because it would have divided too much of his being, aside from the fact that it would probably be utterly useless.

Morgoth the Great · 12-14-2003, 07:52 PM

i doubt he needed another ring. if he would of made another "One Ring" apart from needing a new name, it would either be powerless or he himself would be.

Gorwingel · 12-14-2003, 07:57 PM

Well he couldn't make another one because he had put so much of his being and power into the first one. He had nothing left. And additionally he probably thought that he would never lose the "one", so once he did he would not want to make the same mistake again by putting almost all of his being into such a small thing.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 12:41 AM December 15, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ]

Lord of Angmar · 12-14-2003, 08:05 PM

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losing it was probably quite a blow to him

And the Understatement of the Year Award goes to... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Eol Telemnar · 12-14-2003, 09:04 PM

He could make another, but all's it would be is a tinker-toy. It would probably be a normal, average ring., plus, he has no phisical form, so he can't forge another

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 10:05 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: Eol Telemnar ]

Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar · 12-15-2003, 03:19 PM

RIght, eol, whatever that means.

What i meant was, not, "could memake another ring of power", but could he make rings like those that ensnared the Nazgul?

Lord of Angmar · 12-15-2003, 03:59 PM

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What i meant was, not, "could memake another ring of power", but could he make rings like those that ensnared the Nazgul?

I already addressed this in my first post:

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First of all, after he created the One, he was revealed as Sauron to the peoples of Middle-earth, so no one would henceforth be willing to accept a Ring of Power from him if he offered.

He could have created more Rings after he created the One Ring, but no one would have accepted them. If you are asking if he could have done this before the creation of the One Ring, then the answer is yes, he probably could have created more, but what would be the point?

Tar-Alcarin · 12-15-2003, 06:21 PM

Celebrimbor made the rings and sauron killed him off. So without celebrimbor...

Lord of Angmar · 12-15-2003, 06:43 PM

Well, Sauron forged the One Ring without Celebrimbor (as well as teaching Celebrimbor some of what he knew), so I doubt that Celebrimbor's death would have left Sauron entirely unable to produce more Rings of Power.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:12 AM December 23, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]

Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar · 12-15-2003, 07:17 PM

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He could have created more Rings after he created the One Ring, but no one would have accepted them.

Well, he might be able to ensnare some easterlings or some haradrim.
I think the question now is whether making more Nazgul like people would make the original Nazgul less powerful. Any ideas? I think it is an interesting question, even if no one else does.

Olorin_TLA · 12-17-2003, 07:29 AM

His worshipping slaves in Harad and Rhun would definately have accepted them if he told them to.

Seems like the most likely explaantion is that it'd be too much a drain on his power, most of which was in the One already.

Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar · 12-20-2003, 10:57 AM

So he could not have made more because it would have been a drain on his power? Is this because he did not have the ring, and the ring was necessary to do anything requiring great power?
This seems like the most likely explanation.

Mahal · 12-20-2003, 01:29 PM

Yes, I think it has to do like someone said earlier that he put most of his being and power into the ring, and had not enough for another ring. And why would he need another ring, he got it all with that ring. He can't ensnare the elves anymore so why try another time.

Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar · 12-20-2003, 02:38 PM

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And why would he need another ring, he got it all with that ring

Ahem. Although this is not what my original question said, what this topic is about is why did he not make more rings to ensnare more MEN, not why didnt he make another 'one ring'. I never said he should make another 'one ring'. OK, there, i've said it.

Mahal · 12-20-2003, 03:57 PM

Yes, but another ring of lesser stature has no effect, because there are no "strong" men left( and probably thought nine were enough). Only the dunedain, and those were the decendants of the rebels of Numenor.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 5:00 PM December 20, 2003: Message edited by: Mahal ]

Rasputin · 12-20-2003, 06:16 PM

i beileve since he poured lots of his power into the creation of it, if he would have attempted another, he wouldnt have been able to, or it would be a really pitiful ring not worth the effort

Olorin_TLA · 12-21-2003, 10:46 AM

It's not that he needed the One Ring to expend lots of power, it's simply that amking something like a Ring of Power requires you to put lots of your power into it, and seeing as he was missing the One at the time I don't think he was likel;y to want to use up more of his diminished pwoer than necessary. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Finwe · 12-21-2003, 12:34 PM

To be honest, Sauron didn't make any more Rings of Power because he didn't need any more Rings of Power. He made them to enslave all the other races to his will. Since the Easterlings and Haradrim were already enslaved to his will, giving their leaders Rings of Power would just be a wasteful expenditure of energy. He influenced the making of the Seven, Nine, and Three, because he wanted to bring the Dwarves, Men, and Elves under his control. Thankfully, the Elves were too smart for him, and even though it was last minute, they figured out what he was up to, and managed to hide the Three.

kittiewhirl1677 · 12-21-2003, 01:08 PM

I know this is Middle Earth and not something modern, but still I can't help it:

Maybe it's kind of like an equation. One ring of power gave Sauron a ton of the power. Another ring, though, would be placed on the other side of the equation and cancel out the first ring, so in effect, Sauron's rings would both not work. This probably made no sense, but it was just an idea...

Elrond of Rivendell · 12-21-2003, 01:22 PM

IMHO I agree with Finwe. Although there are not many precisions about the Nazgul and what they were before becoming ensnared by their ring, they are described as "great kings of men". This means that Sauron was only interested in giving the rings to great, powerful men. He wasn't interested in making rings in order to ensnare people already submitted to his will or so weak that they would easily be overcome by military forces. Only great kings "deserved" a ring.
Greetings,
EfR

Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar · 12-22-2003, 12:56 PM

Im just wondering- are a bunch of people misinterpreting my question, or are they going off on a tangent?

So giving men RoP did not make they powerful, it only enhanced their power. Because of this, elsnaring weak men would not help, because their power would not be enhanced enough to make it worth the effort. Got it.

Earendilyon · 12-23-2003, 04:49 AM

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Lord of Angmar: He could have created more Rings after he created the One Ring, but no one would have accepted them.

He gave the Nine (and Seven) Rings only after he was revealed and he captured them after conquering Hollin and Ost-in-Edhil. So, if he had created more, I'm sure he would've found them in demand [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

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Tar-Alcarin: Celebrimbor made the rings and sauron killed him off. So without celebrimbor...

As said before, Sauron made the One Ring and thaught Celebrimbor c.s. much of what they knew about it.

I think Finwe is right in saying he didn't need to make more. He already had the One, the Seven and the Nine and many lesser Rings more.

Lord of Angmar · 12-23-2003, 04:18 PM

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From that time war never ceased between Sauron and the Elves... But Sauron gathered into his hands all the remaining Rings of Power; and he dealt them out to the peoples of Middle-earth, hoping thus to bring under his sway all those that desired secret power beyond the measure of their kind. ("Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age")

My mistake, Earendilyon. This passage shows explicitly that Sauron gave the Nine Rings and Seven Rings to Men and Dwarves, respectively, after he was revealed by Celebrimbor. I suppose then, that it is entirely possible that his Rings would still have been in demand to some. However, he could not hope to attain much more power than he already had since he had probably already dealt out Rings to all the powerful leaders who desired them. Any attempt to give Rings of Power to anyone else of import would probably have proven folly, and thus it would have been a pointless exercise to creat more Rings.

12-14-2003, 04:23 PM	#1
Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar Wight Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Somewhere, wandering in middle earth... Posts: 137	Why couldn't sauron make more rings of power? Someone might have already made a topic about this, and there might be an article, but i DID do a search. Why couldn't sauron make more rings of power? This is probably a stupid question, but I have read Sil and LotR, and, as far as i can remember, the answer is not there. __________________ Turin Turambar, Master of Fate, by Fate Mastered. No, im not turin. Or tuor. Or anyone. I am not!

12-14-2003, 07:42 PM	#2
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	There are a number of reasons why he made no more Rings of Power. First of all, after he created the One, he was revealed as Sauron to the peoples of Middle-earth, so no one would henceforth be willing to accept a Ring of Power from him if he offered. He could not make another ring akin to the One Ring probably because it would have divided too much of his being, aside from the fact that it would probably be utterly useless. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

12-14-2003, 07:52 PM	#3
Morgoth the Great Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Thangorodrim Posts: 59	i doubt he needed another ring. if he would of made another "One Ring" apart from needing a new name, it would either be powerless or he himself would be. __________________ Walking to Rivendell: 130 miles. tiring it is too precious....

12-14-2003, 07:57 PM	#4
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	Well he couldn't make another one because he had put so much of his being and power into the first one. He had nothing left. And additionally he probably thought that he would never lose the "one", so once he did he would not want to make the same mistake again by putting almost all of his being into such a small thing. <font size=1 color=339966>[ 12:41 AM December 15, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ] __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

12-14-2003, 09:04 PM	#6
Eol Telemnar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At my house, on my computer (where else would I be? Posts: 89	He could make another, but all's it would be is a tinker-toy. It would probably be a normal, average ring., plus, he has no phisical form, so he can't forge another <font size=1 color=339966>[ 10:05 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: Eol Telemnar ] __________________ Eol Telemnar, The Dark Elf , Has Spoken, Heed My words well. Peace go with you.

12-15-2003, 03:19 PM	#7
Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar Wight Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Somewhere, wandering in middle earth... Posts: 137	RIght, eol, whatever that means. What i meant was, not, "could memake another ring of power", but could he make rings like those that ensnared the Nazgul? __________________ Turin Turambar, Master of Fate, by Fate Mastered. No, im not turin. Or tuor. Or anyone. I am not!

12-15-2003, 06:21 PM	#9
Tar-Alcarin Wight Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Numenore Posts: 108	Celebrimbor made the rings and sauron killed him off. So without celebrimbor... __________________ Miniature Rohirrim armor: $500. Amount of fuel it took pippin to light the beacons: $20. Seeing your two favourite hobbits get wasted and drunk: priceless

12-15-2003, 06:43 PM	#10
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Well, Sauron forged the One Ring without Celebrimbor (as well as teaching Celebrimbor some of what he knew), so I doubt that Celebrimbor's death would have left Sauron entirely unable to produce more Rings of Power. <font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:12 AM December 23, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ] __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

12-17-2003, 07:29 AM	#12
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	His worshipping slaves in Harad and Rhun would definately have accepted them if he told them to. Seems like the most likely explaantion is that it'd be too much a drain on his power, most of which was in the One already. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

12-20-2003, 10:57 AM	#13
Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar Wight Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Somewhere, wandering in middle earth... Posts: 137	So he could not have made more because it would have been a drain on his power? Is this because he did not have the ring, and the ring was necessary to do anything requiring great power? This seems like the most likely explanation. __________________ Turin Turambar, Master of Fate, by Fate Mastered. No, im not turin. Or tuor. Or anyone. I am not!

12-20-2003, 01:29 PM	#14
Mahal Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2003 Location: Paradox Realm Posts: 66	Yes, I think it has to do like someone said earlier that he put most of his being and power into the ring, and had not enough for another ring. And why would he need another ring, he got it all with that ring. He can't ensnare the elves anymore so why try another time. __________________ *A new technology does not add or substract something. It changes everything.*

12-20-2003, 03:57 PM	#16
Mahal Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2003 Location: Paradox Realm Posts: 66	Yes, but another ring of lesser stature has no effect, because there are no "strong" men left( and probably thought nine were enough). Only the dunedain, and those were the decendants of the rebels of Numenor. <font size=1 color=339966>[ 5:00 PM December 20, 2003: Message edited by: Mahal ] __________________ *A new technology does not add or substract something. It changes everything.*

12-20-2003, 06:16 PM	#17
Rasputin Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 23	i beileve since he poured lots of his power into the creation of it, if he would have attempted another, he wouldnt have been able to, or it would be a really pitiful ring not worth the effort

12-21-2003, 10:46 AM	#18
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	It's not that he needed the One Ring to expend lots of power, it's simply that amking something like a Ring of Power requires you to put lots of your power into it, and seeing as he was missing the One at the time I don't think he was likel;y to want to use up more of his diminished pwoer than necessary. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

12-21-2003, 12:34 PM	#19
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	To be honest, Sauron didn't make any more Rings of Power because he didn't need any more Rings of Power. He made them to enslave all the other races to his will. Since the Easterlings and Haradrim were already enslaved to his will, giving their leaders Rings of Power would just be a wasteful expenditure of energy. He influenced the making of the Seven, Nine, and Three, because he wanted to bring the Dwarves, Men, and Elves under his control. Thankfully, the Elves were too smart for him, and even though it was last minute, they figured out what he was up to, and managed to hide the Three. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

12-21-2003, 01:08 PM	#20
kittiewhirl1677 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Living Hell Posts: 255	I know this is Middle Earth and not something modern, but still I can't help it: Maybe it's kind of like an equation. One ring of power gave Sauron a ton of the power. Another ring, though, would be placed on the other side of the equation and cancel out the first ring, so in effect, Sauron's rings would both not work. This probably made no sense, but it was just an idea... __________________ The world was young, the mountains green. No stain yet on the moon was seen. No words were laid on stream or stone, When Durin woke and walked alone...

12-21-2003, 01:22 PM	#21
Elrond of Rivendell Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 261	IMHO I agree with Finwe. Although there are not many precisions about the Nazgul and what they were before becoming ensnared by their ring, they are described as "great kings of men". This means that Sauron was only interested in giving the rings to great, powerful men. He wasn't interested in making rings in order to ensnare people already submitted to his will or so weak that they would easily be overcome by military forces. Only great kings "deserved" a ring. Greetings, EfR

12-22-2003, 12:56 PM	#22
Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar Wight Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Somewhere, wandering in middle earth... Posts: 137	Im just wondering- are a bunch of people misinterpreting my question, or are they going off on a tangent? So giving men RoP did not make they powerful, it only enhanced their power. Because of this, elsnaring weak men would not help, because their power would not be enhanced enough to make it worth the effort. Got it. __________________ Turin Turambar, Master of Fate, by Fate Mastered. No, im not turin. Or tuor. Or anyone. I am not!