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02-18-2003, 07:49 AM | #1 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The edge of nowhere
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Links between characters. Why is tolkien different?
While writing a tiresome essay on Sherlock Holmes , I was asked to analyse links between Conan Doyle's characters . This brought me to thinking about Tolkien's "links" between his characters. One such link in Holmes is the links between Villian / Victim, Does Tolkien actually have a victim / villian relationship as such or is it more a balanced ecosystem of a story in which one changed decsision can change the path of the story ?
In many topics we have speculation on What would happen if ? And the same answer occurs every time . If one thing hadn't have happened then neither would such and such leading on to such and such. What makes Tolkien's work (especially the link from silm to LOTR) so special. is it the non-definitve links between characters ? The eco-system he has created ? Don't know if any of that made sense to anyone, it's just a thought.
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Estel............. Some have it more than others. "Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! |
02-18-2003, 08:46 AM | #2 |
Itinerant Songster
Join Date: Jan 2002
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It would help me if you were to give a specific example of how this works with Sherlock Holmes. Then I'd know how to apply the idea better to LotR et. al.
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02-18-2003, 09:27 AM | #3 |
Haunting Spirit
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Cona Doyle likes to have a direct link between victim and villian. What I was wondering is do people see the same resembelence in Tolkien's work .
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Estel............. Some have it more than others. "Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! |
02-18-2003, 09:21 PM | #4 |
Itinerant Songster
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I was hoping for something a little more complete, but by direct link I suppose you mean that there was always a motive based on relationship? If so, the villains we can list are Morgoth, Sauron, Saruman, the Witch King, and Gollum (the most complex and sympathetic villain) The victims? Well, there aren't victims of crimes, per se. However, Morgoth's enemy was Feanor, Sauron's was the line of Elros, Saruman's was Rohan and the Shire, the Witch King's was Arthedane, then the Ringbearer, and then Minas Tirith, and Gollum's was - um - Sauron or Frodo, interchangeably. Right?
Do you see direct connections between Villain and enemy? I do. I think it's inevitable in ANY story, actually, although I can see the link being indirect, such as between Sauron and Frodo. So perhaps it depends. |
02-19-2003, 05:17 AM | #5 | |
Delver in the Deep
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I wasn't very clear on the original post, either, but littlmanpoet seems to have cleared it up a little. I think that you'd first have to ask whether there were any singular victims in Arda, and if so who they were. I'm not sure how Arthur Conan Doyle defined his villains, but if it is by their deliberate harm of other humans, then it is in a different way to Tolkien. The villains of Middle-Earth are portrayed as despicable because of their attitudes and their actions, in general more than as directed at a single entity.
As an example, Saruman didn't particularly want to kill Théoden - the desire to do this was just a byproduct of his lust for power and control. He was not himself a murderer, but more of a commander. Quote:
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