Why did Frodo Volunteer to take the Ring?

[Maédhros]

From The Lord of the Rings:The Council of Elrond

No one answered. The noon-bell rang. Still no one spoke. Frodo glanced at all the faces, but they were not turned to him. All the Council sat with downcast eyes, as if in deep thought. A great dread fell on him, as if he was awaiting the pronouncement of some doom that he had long foreseen and vainly hoped might after all never be spoken. An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace by Bilbo's side in Rivendell filled all his heart. At last with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice.
`I will take the Ring,' he said, `though I do not know the way.'

Why did Frodo volunteer to take the Ring, because he felt that it was his duty or because he didn't wanted to be kept away from the Ring.

[Telchar]

The latter.

[Arwen Imladris]

This has already been discused here

[Maédhros]

Thanks Arwen, I missed that one. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
What I find curious about Frodo volunteering himself for the Quest to destroy the Ring is this, he couldn't destroy the Ring.
From LOTR: The Shadow of the Past

Gandalf held it up. It looked to be made of pure and solid gold. ‘Can you see any markings on it?’ he asked.
‘No,’ said Frodo. ‘There are none. It is quite plain, and it never shows a scratch or sign of wear.’
‘Well then, look!’ To Frodo’s astonishment and distress the wizard threw it suddenly into the middle of a glowing corner of the fire. Frodo gave a cry and groped for the tongs; but Gandalf held him back.

Frodo drew the Ring out of his pocket again and looked at it. It now appeared plain and smooth, without mark or device that he could see. The gold looked very fair and pure, and Frodo thought how rich and beautiful was its colour, how perfect was its roundness. It was an admirable thing and altogether precious. When he took it out he had intended to fling it from him into the very hottest part of the fire. But he found now that he could not do so, not without a great struggle. He weighed the Ring in his hand, hesitating, and forcing himself to remember all that Gandalf had told him; and then with an effort of will he made a movement, as if to cast it away - but he found that he had put it back in his pocket.

If Frodo couldn't throw the Ring in Bag End to the fire, what hope did he had to ever acomplish the quest in which he volunteered to do so?

[HerenIstarion]

He had none. The whole thing was in trust. Frodo trusted Gandalf, and Gandalf trusted Eru. I must reread something before I come up with more consistent a statement, though...

edit:

well, before I come with aforesaid, consider the following (reposted from
here )

three motives overall

1 Desire to keep the ring
2 Feeling of responsibility
3 Eru's urge to take the task on himself

The third entry requires comments alright. I'm not quite ready for an extended discussion right away, but I will refer to Gandalf now. Do you recall him mentioning at several placeses things like "there were more than one power at play when Bilbo found the ring"* and "So bilbo was meant to find the ring, and you, Frodo, were meant to inherit it"*. As well as in UT he tells the fellowship that "my heart warned me that if Bilbo would not go with Thorin, the whole expedition and far more than that would fail"* (*all the quotes misquoted, approximate meanings off the top of my head). I assume that is Eru since Gandalf is emissary of the Valar, there is no reason for them to use such subtlety in dealings with him and hobbits. Who else? Eru.

So, motive number 3 = Eru

Another idea - reason #2 may be eqaul of reason #3

[ December 13, 2002: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]

[Arwen Imladris]

That is O.K. Maédhros, I know that the search thing isn't always helpful [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img], but I knew it was in there somewhere because I had that question before too.

[Lindril Arvilya]

Why did Merry end up as Theoden's esquire and Pippin a Guard of the Tower? I think it was partially a sudden, urged move on their part. Something within these three said to them "Go, now!", and they said what they thought, complying with the urging of those "other powers".

[Orual]

What I find curious about Frodo volunteering himself for the Quest to destroy the Ring is this, he couldn't destroy the Ring.

No stranger than Elrond letting Boromir go along! A quote from a parody:

Boromir: I'll just invite myself along, for no good reason. Certainly not because I have larceny on my mind. Nope.

Is it just me, or was it fairly obvious that he wanted the Ring? Or at least that he didn't think that destroying it was the best option? But I am getting rather off-topic.

I think that Frodo took the Ring, as has been said, because something in him said "This is your quest, this is your future. You're the only one who can do this, so do it. Now!" Which resulted in "I will take it!" (A scene that always touches me.) Perhaps it was also because he didn't want to part with the Ring, but I tend to think (or want to think) that his motives were purer than that.

~*~Orual~*~

[Arestelwen]

You're right Orual, Boromir did want the ring from the beggining. But I think he was meant to go as well as Frodo was meant to carry the ring.
Consider that Boromir's attitude made Frodo decide to go alone at the end.

But back to the question, I think Frodo knew somehow that he had to take the ring. Of course the ring was "calling" for him, and he didn't want to leave it, but he was in a really unconfortable position. Like when someone asks who did something and everyone knows it was you, but noone says anything. Someone else that didn't have to take the task was going to take it if he didn't speak.
It was a noble thing to do.

[Maédhros]

I know that Frodo had a calling of sorts to take the Ring, but how much do you think it was a higher purpose and how much was his own desire to keep the Ring.
Why would he volunteer to take on a quest to destroy the Ring, when he couldn't even do it in Bag End.
From LOTR: The Shadow of the Past

Gandalf laughed grimly. ‘You see? Already you too, Frodo, cannot easily let it go, nor will to damage it. And I could not “make” you - except by force, which would break your mind.

It leaves me wondering.

[doug*platypus]

Agent Double 0-Boromir had to be invited along, he was going that way anyway. They're a polite bunch, they took him along even though noone in the Fellowship really liked him (admit it). Interesting what you say about spiritual guidance from Eru (or maybe the Valar) - there are many places in the book where characters are suddenly moved by a force from themselves they do not fully understand, even to the point of 'speaking in tongues' as Frodo does, at least twice. Tolkien's ideals frequently come through in the book.

[Arestelwen]

I think Eru's call to Frodo was as strong as his own desire to take the ring.
Of course,he knew that he could end up dead, but I guess the wish to remain safe couldn't match the other forces

"An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace by Bilbo's side in Rivendell filled all his heart. At last with an effort he spoke, and wandered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice.

- I will take the Ring..."

[doug*platypus]

On the subject of fate or destiny in Middle-Earth, another thread proposed that Elves were subject to fate, whereas Men were not, and had Free Will.

My own thoughts developed into an idea, related to Bilbo, that Men and Hobbits had Free Will, but since they were created by Iluvatar, they were created with certain tendencies. While Frodo may not have been directly compelled by Iluvatar or the Valar to offer to take the Ring, it's possible he was created to be likely to take the Ring. Possible, since Iluvatar knows the entire history and future of the world.

I like the original thought, though:

Why did Frodo volunteer to take the Ring, because he felt that it was his duty or because he didn't wanted to be kept away from the Ring.

Frodo did show great reluctance to be parted from It... unless you believe the FOTR movie.

[hobbitlass]

As for the FotR movie, I explain it as a the beginnings of a split personality like Gollum, or at least that whole love/hate thing with the ring. I do believe that a part of Frodo DID want someone, anyone to take the ring and be rid of the burden. But when someone (such as Boromir) wants it enough to actually try and take it, then the other side of Frodo comes out and he fights for it. I think Frodo would have fought if Gandalf or Galadriel had actually tried to take it from him even though he originally offered the ring to them freely.
That was a litle off of the topic and I haven't anything to add that hasn't already been said.

[Aratlithiel]

I have pondered this question for years - literally!

I think I've finally come to believe that Frodo volunteered to take the Ring because no one else would and he's just a good and noble Hobbit. After hearing everything that is said at the Council and realizing what's at stake, he sees what must be done. He also sees that no one else is willing to do it which I think is an important point. He is surrounded by all of these great Men, and Elf-lords, yet he is the only one who has the deep, personal understanding of what the Ring is capable of and he therefore means to see it destroyed. Everyone else has an academic understanding of its power, but no one else has ever worn it. Yes, Bilbo did wear it and he too was willing to make the trip, but he gave it up just as it was awakening and had not had the same experiences with it that Frodo did. Frodo is the only one who truly understands and is therefore the only one who knows without doubt that it has to be done.

I'm not sure how much his desire to keep the Ring has to do with this decision. It seems that he still has the ability at this point to relinquish it - although it would probably be with great difficulty and he would require Gandalf's help as did Bilbo. But I think if his desire played that large a part in his decision that Tolkien would have made that a more present aspect in the narration. As it is, the desire is not even mentioned at this point - only Frodo's fear and the sense that everyone else is expecting him to volunteer.

In the end, I think that Frodo's decision was based upon his inner sense of right and wrong and good and evil and his desire to do right and good. I don't think he would have gotten past the borders of Rivendell if he hadn't had these purposes in his heart.

Of course, he could have just been a control freak and figured, "if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself."
[img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

[doug*platypus]

New theory.

Have you ever been in class and the teacher asks a question, and lots of people know the answer but noone wants to say, and it's sunny outside and you just want to end the silence and go to lunch? That's when you have to be brave like Frodo, stand up and say something, so you can all have something to eat. He is a hobbit after all. Maybe Bilbo speaks up first for the exact same reason. Lucky for all that Boromir didn't step in first!

Also, I don't think that Frodo really did have a full grasp of the evil potential of The Ring. Elrond would have known it more, after seeing the might of Sauron with the Ring, and the quick hold that It placed on Isildur. Frodo had felt the pull of the Ring several times before, but not fully as he would later in Mordor. I don't think the answer is as simple as you would have us believe, Aratlithiel.

[Aratlithiel]

LOL - BWA HA HA HAAA!!!! yourself, doug! I do like your lunch theory, though. Very Hobbity.

I still think Frodo had a better idea of its power but that's just me. Elrond, Gandalf, etal. certainly KNEW of its power, but they had never FELT it. I think that's a big difference. But, to each his own.

[akhtene]

Leaving aside the idea of divine providence (as I've nrver been good at such theorizing) I'd suggest that Gandalf was to a great extent 'responsible' for Frodo's decision. Remember, Frodo had always taken Gandalf's words at their face value. To Bilbo he says:

You cannot take this thing back. It has passed on.

To whom? Everyone present had been told that. So what was Frodo supposed to feel, as no-one stood up? Could he help feeling it was HIS quest?
And besides, Elrond's sugnificant remark about SMALL HANDS doing great deeds. Thus Frodo, naive and sensitive, was led to making his decision. By no means do I underestimate Frodo's desire and eagerness, But to me things look pretty much decided beforehand. And, it turns out, for common benefit.

[doug*platypus]

I like what you're saying there, Akhtene (as usual!!). Gandalf was certainly a valued and trusted friend of Frodo's. Elrond would have likewise had a high reputation in the tabletalk at Bag End. Gandalf sent Bilbo on his adventure to Erebor partly for his own and for Thorin's benefit, but also because he knew that Bilbo himself would have much to gain. Frodo undoubtedly could see the effects on Bilbo, who was vastly different to other hobbits (with the possible exception of Frodo), and would have trusted that Gandalf's trust in him was not in vain, and for the best. Frodo is as great a student as Gandalf is a mentor.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Note, on the 'other will using his voice'. Eru, possibly?

[Child of the 7th Age]

Iderjit,

I agree with you. I have always felt this was the still, small voice of Eru. The words are too striking to be anything else. I think the true task which Frodo took on at the council was not to toss the Ring in the fire, but to be an instrument of Eru. (This ties in with earlier quotes on Bilbo being meant to find the Ring, and Frodo being meant to get it from Bilbo.)

That does not negate Frodo's free choice (for whatever reason he made it!). Eru does not take over folk like this without their consent! Frodo had to make a "free" decision in his heart before Eru could reach out and use him as an instrument.

In this case, the instrument was his voice. Later on, it would be his body in getting to the mountain itelf.

I have always felt that no one, Gandalf or Eru, actually expected Frodo to toss the ring in the fire. Even in the earliest discussion of the Ring, Gandalf was aware that the hobbit couldn't voluntarily destroy it. In the Letters, Tolkien says this task was actually impossible for anyone in Arda, since no being is perfect. Frodo's job, that which he accepted at the council, was to get the ring to the location of Mt Doom. Then, other forces took over.

Sadly, after the quest, Frodo had trouble accepting that limitation on his role. Again, in the Letters, Tolkien says part of Frodo wanted to be a "hero" rather than an instrument of Providence. And part of him still desired the Ring. Again, given Tolkien's view of human nature, this is almost inevitable.

I think Frodo is also influenced by Bilbo's offer to take the ring. Bilbo, aged 129, resignedly says "Bilbo the silly hobbit started this and he must finish it." Perhaps he also was motivated by desire to possess the ring again but I think his entirely serious offer to undertake the task confirmed for Frodo the idea that it was his duty and his alone to destroy the ring. He was Bilbo's heir, he had inherited the ring, it was his to destroy. And so he was motivated by both a sense of duty and by desire for the ring.

[Guinevere]

I've been following this discussion with interest, but as usual, everything I wanted to say, has already been expressed (much better than I could say it)...by Aralithiel, Akhtene and Child of th 7th age!

I just want to add a quotation from Tolkien's letter (#246):

"Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could; and also in complete humility, acknowledging that he was wholly inadequate to the task. His real contract was only to do what he could, to try to find a way, and to go as far on the road as his strength of mind and body allowed."

I do not think either, that at the time of Elrond's council the Ring had yet such a hold on Frodo that this would influence his decision.

Frodo knew it was his duty to take the ring as soon as Gandalf explained the history of the ring and what must happen to it. Poor little hobbit!

[The Saucepan Man]

Frodo knew it was his duty to take the ring as soon as Gandalf explained the history of the ring and what must happen to it.

Thank you Moonpie for demystifying for me what seems to have become a very complicated debate about Frodo's motives and who, or what, may have influenced him in his decision.

I agree. I have always been very much inclined to the view that, at that moment at the Council of Elrond, Frodo knew, in his heart of hearts, that he was the one to undertake this Quest. It could be no other, and he knew that.

Frodo assumes the task willimgly and knowing that it is his to perform. Had he not done so, then I daresay that he would have succumbed to the power of the Ring much earlier than he did.

OK. It's been a while since I read Fellowship, so my answer is based on the movie. I know, I'll read the books again real soon. My theory: Frodo volunteered to take the ring because it was already starting to work its magic on him. When Elrond asked Frodo to put the ring on the table in the middle of the circle, I thought Frodo showed a tad of reluctance to let it go. When everyone else was fighting over what to do with the ring, who should bear it and all that fun stuff, Frodo was rubbing his forhead like he had a migraine coming on, and that wasn't an ordinary gosh-that-nasty-dwarf-axe-made-a-big-bang-when-it-shattered flinch. Frodo was acting like a junkie going through the first stages of withdrawal. Yes, Frodo was on his way to becoming a ring-of-power junkie.

[doug*platypus]

Inderjit Sanghera

Note, on the 'other will using his voice'. Eru, possibly?

Child of the 7th Age

free choice

And so does another thread fall into the black hole of Fate vs Free Will.

[HerenIstarion]

And so does another thread fall into the black hole of Fate vs Free Will

And so does H-I poke with a shovel and pull out the grubby remnants of it back to the light, as is his wont for threads about Fate and Free Will

But the matters which I would have brought to attention here (as Fate and Free Will are much discussed already in manifold threads all around the place) is trust

I intended to start a separate thread for it, but Frodo looked as a good example, so I simply brought current one back

I had no time back than to develop the theme, (neither do I have much of it now), but I would you focus on the passage in Finrod/Andreth discussion running as follows:

What is hope?' she said. 'An expectation of good, which though ncertain has some foundation in what is known? Then we have none.'

'That is one thing that Men call "hope",' said Finrod. 'Amdir we call it, "looking up". But there is another which is founded deeper. Estel we call it, that is "trust". It is not defeated by the ways of the world, for it does not come from experience, but from our nature and first being. If we are indeed the Eruhin, the Children of the One, then He will not suffer Himself to be
deprived of His own, not by any Enemy, not even by ourselves.
This is the last foundation of Estel, which we keep even when
we contemplate the End: of all His designs the issue must be for
His Children's joy.

To the best of my knowledge, that is backbone of Tolkien. (So the trust of those holding on to Estel is usually justified)

Now, I will refrain from coming up with said paragons. I expect the future contributors to the thread to come up with some It would be good check for me to find if what I see there is seen by many (and I do hope there are many)

It would be good also to take a look at this and this, though said threads do not directly deal with what I try to bring to attention here

[Lyta_Underhill]

Estel we call it, that is "trust". It is not defeated by the ways of the world, for it does not come from experience, but from our nature and first being.

Thanks for dredging this thread up again, Heren Istarion! I am always amused and intrigued by the way I am fed the scraps of the Finrod ah Andreth since I do not own a copy of it. It is always widely quoted around here! The idea of "trust" seems quite appropriate to Frodo's motivations in his quest, however. He often makes decisions based on his perception of Gandalf's advice. At first, when he and Sam encounter Gollum, Frodo feels distaste and a desire to leave or do away with Gollum. He doesn't do so, simply because he trusts Gandalf. At first, it is a deliberate and academic trust, but later he comes to understand its nature more.

As for Frodo's motivations in taking the Ring upon himself on the path to Mount Doom, I believe that it wasn't so much the Ring's influence, as his deep desire to make the world safe for all he loves--especially Bilbo and the Shire. I agree with those who have said he feels responsibility, but that responsibility is born out of his love for all he knows. I would go on, but, alas, responsibility calls, and I must go!

Cheers!
Lyta