Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
|
04-08-2001, 03:34 AM | #1 |
Shadow of Malice
|
Tengwar vs. runes
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice
Posts: 757</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> I just realized this, but in the trailer for the LotR movie the inscription on the Ruling ring uses tengwar instead of runes. Was this simply overlooked by Tolkien, a mistake in the movie, or was tengwar normally used for inscriptions on metal objects? I know runes are used in carvings of wood and stone, i would think metals would be the same. Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil be good to have been.</p> |
04-08-2001, 04:02 AM | #2 |
Dead and Loving It
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars.
Posts: 361
|
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 3</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Tengwar vs. runes the scroll of Isildur: "...Already the writing upon it, which at first was as clear as red flame, fadeth and is now only barely to be read. It is fashioned in the Elven-script of Eregion, for they have no letters in Mordor for such subtle work..." and it is traced out in 'Shadow of the Past' using Tengwar just the same as the movie does. So, unless there is some hole in my understanding, i would say that Sauron was forced to use Tengwar(though used the language of Mordor, but the letters themself would be the same as Tengwar, correct?) because Runes would not have fit. Or perhaps he just though Tengwar was nice and pretty. </p> |
04-08-2001, 05:36 AM | #3 |
Hungry Ghoul
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,719
|
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hungry Ghoul
Posts: 838</TD><TD><img src=http://www.tolkiens-legacy.de/gogo.jpg WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Tengwar vs. runes The carving of the letters into the Ring must, in my eyes, have more been of a 'magical' manner, not mechanically (which could not have been anyway as the writings were only visible in fire). Therefore, there may have been no need to use Cirth, which are of course easier to carve into wood, stone and metal, after all, that was why the dwarves used them. The use of Tengwar letters and Black Speech on the Ring has for me always had an air of deliberate provocation by Annatar. Words in his evil speech, but in the letters of the elves, of whose doom the writing tells. This could at least have been Sauron's motives as he crafted it. </p> |
04-08-2001, 11:13 AM | #4 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
|
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dūm
Posts: 266</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Tengwar vs. runes to be honest i dont think that sauron would think that sth is "nice and pretty". but i agree with sharku. seems to be the best answer. Behold the King of Moria!</p>
__________________
...Nichts ist gelber als Gelb selber... ...The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, but conformity... ...Everything is possible, except to ski through a revolving door... |
04-08-2001, 12:05 PM | #5 |
Shadow of Malice
|
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice
Posts: 759</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Tengwar vs. runes SO you think it was delliberabte on Sauron's part(Tolkien meant to)? I was just thinking how there are no other instances and it seemed a little fishy to me. No other smith be it dwarve or elf ever did this. Was it because Sauron could, being that he was very skilled in craft, or did the tengwar mean something compared to runes? Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil be good to have been.</p> |
04-08-2001, 01:01 PM | #6 |
Hungry Ghoul
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,719
|
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hungry Ghoul
Posts: 839</TD><TD><img src=http://www.tolkiens-legacy.de/gogo.jpg WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Tengwar vs. runes It may be as simple as that he used Tengwar because the Noldorin Gwaith-i-Mirdain did. And, added to this, he probably was too lazy to invent his own 'Black Script' (which the elves then could not have read anyway). </p> |
06-14-2003, 05:51 AM | #7 |
Shadowed Prince
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Thulcandra
Posts: 2,343
|
I know that the runes were used by the elves, the mode of Dirion i think, but wasnt it mstly used by dwarves. And the elves prefered tengwar cos it was so pretty. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
So I think it was because the elves could understand it. |
06-14-2003, 12:42 PM | #8 |
Deathless Sun
|
I think Sauron deliberately used Tengwar to mock the Elves. The Black Speech is absolutely nothing like Quenya and Sindarin. Sauron wanted to mock the Elves' beautiful language(s) and thus, used Tengwar to write those horrible words on the Ring.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fėanor, and there he slew Finwė King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwė alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
06-14-2003, 02:57 PM | #9 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
I think it was used to add a kind of mystical aw.
|
06-14-2003, 03:14 PM | #10 |
Deathless Sun
|
I don't think that Sauron was looking for a "mystical awe" effect. That never bothered him. His favorite thing to do was mock, especially mock beautiful things. I think that's why he used Tengwar.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fėanor, and there he slew Finwė King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwė alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
06-14-2003, 04:34 PM | #11 |
Shade of Carn Dūm
Join Date: May 2002
Location: stronghold of the North
Posts: 390
|
As was posted earlier, runes are well suited for carving or scratching. Wouldn't that have spoilt the simple beauty of the ring? To my eye the inscription looks more like being engraved or etched (magically or not) and Tengwar script was simply more suitable for doing so.
__________________
Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока... |
|
|