How would Galadriel know? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Frodo Baggins · 03-21-2003, 07:07 AM

While reading TTT again the other day, I came across where Gandalf is telling Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli how he fared with the Balrog and how he lay atop the mountain until found by Gwaihir. He mentioned that Galadriel sent Gwaihir to look for him. Now how in the name of the Shire was she supposed to know he would be around? It really dosen't make sense.

**lindil** · 03-21-2003, 07:35 AM

Osanwe, Osanwe, Osanwe.

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-21-2003, 09:35 AM

...and the Mirror, of course!

03-21-2003, 11:53 AM

First of all, The Lady of the Silver wood has the gift for Forseeing. Also, she has the Mirror of Galadriel which shows both things that are and things that have not yet come to pass.

lathspell · 03-21-2003, 12:57 PM

Galadriel indeed had some way of forseeing things. The request to Gwaihir to search for Gandalf was one, but for example: her warning to Legolas 'to beware of the Sea', was another. These things are, I think, for us impossible to explain for we are but simple men [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Yet I do think that the mirror was a great help for her to know these things.
I'm more confused with Elrond knowing these things. When Elrohir and Elladan come upon Aragorn and Theoden, they say they bring words of Elrond and he says something like: 'when things look darkest, remember the words of the Seer. Look for the Paths of the Dead.' This is something that breaks my mind more than the forseeings of Galadriel, for Elrond doesn't have a mirror. For the people who aren't as easily thinking as I do that Elrond does foreseethings as well, Elrond also says to his sons and the Dunedain that they should look for Elessar in the land of Rohan.
I would like to hear some opinions on this.

greetings,
lathspell

Frodo Baggins · 03-21-2003, 08:44 PM

Thank you Lathspell, you have just made one thought into another. To tell you the truth, I was wondering the same thing. All right everyone, more silver pennies from Lathspeel and I for your thoughts.

Lyta_Underhill · 03-22-2003, 01:23 AM

Greetings to all present!
One thing I thought of was what is the connection between Galadriel and Gandalf? They both bear a great Ring. Perhaps they connect through it, just as Gandalf and Frodo did briefly at Amon Hen, when Gandalf's voice is heard by Frodo to say "Take off the Ring, fool!" Maybe Galadriel heard Gandalf's voice at the moment of his need, and she acted upon it.

Also, it is possible that Elrond merely remembers his lore quite well! I would think this more a gift of intuition and foresight on Elrond's part. He reads the old verse about the Paths of the Dead and has a realization that Aragorn is the one mentioned there. Would Aragorn have taken the Paths had Elrond not suggested it? Who knows? Isn't Elrond renowned for his keeping of lore? I'd think this was a thinking man putting two threads together and coming out with a revelation...

*drops two pennies in and bows to the gathered dignitaries--then scurries out and breaks a priceless statue in the process...one can never escape this life without a little humbling...*

Cheers,
Lyta
(who believes in magic and prophecy and all that, but holds to living in the moment like her hero, Peregrin Took!)

**lindil** · 03-22-2003, 09:19 AM

Galadriel was able [as were, seemingly, any of the powerful Eldar] to use her mind to search for others [or at least others with similar abilities]. She states this baldly when the fellowship all [minus Gandalf] finally arrives on the royal flet in Caras Galadon.

Quote:

Gandalf the Grey set out with the Company, but but he did not pass the borders of this land. Now tell us where he is; for I much desired to speak with him again. But I can nopt see him from afar, unless hecomes within the fences of Lorien for a grey mist is about him, and the ways of his feet and his mind are hidden from me.

This specifically describes Osanwe, the ability of Ainur, Elves and especially gifted, powerful or trained mortals to send and receive thoughts to each other.

Explored in fascinating detail in the essay by JRRT Osanwe-Kenta.

See Link above for more on it.

Feanor of the Peredhil · 03-23-2003, 09:57 AM

Perhaps when Gandalf was lying naked on the mountain top not quite dead or alive his 'grey mist' wasn't as strong as usual? It's possible (in my embarrasingly un-Tolkien-educated mind) that at that time when he was not in full control of himself that Galadriel was able to see him from afar. Or at least to feel his presence, and that would cause her to send out a searcher, for if he were truly fallen, than wouldn't she be unable to feel his presence in ME?

*And then she bows and as she turns to leave, this wonderful group points out the flaws in her thought processes, and she is humbled. Very forcefully*

03-21-2003, 07:07 AM	#1
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	How would Galadriel know? While reading TTT again the other day, I came across where Gandalf is telling Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli how he fared with the Balrog and how he lay atop the mountain until found by Gwaihir. He mentioned that Galadriel sent Gwaihir to look for him. Now how in the name of the Shire was she supposed to know he would be around? It really dosen't make sense. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

03-21-2003, 07:35 AM	#2
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Osanwe, Osanwe, Osanwe. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-21-2003, 09:35 AM	#3
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	...and the Mirror, of course! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

03-21-2003, 12:57 PM	#5
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	Galadriel indeed had some way of forseeing things. The request to Gwaihir to search for Gandalf was one, but for example: her warning to Legolas 'to beware of the Sea', was another. These things are, I think, for us impossible to explain for we are but simple men [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Yet I do think that the mirror was a great help for her to know these things. I'm more confused with Elrond knowing these things. When Elrohir and Elladan come upon Aragorn and Theoden, they say they bring words of Elrond and he says something like: 'when things look darkest, remember the words of the Seer. Look for the Paths of the Dead.' This is something that breaks my mind more than the forseeings of Galadriel, for Elrond doesn't have a mirror. For the people who aren't as easily thinking as I do that Elrond does foreseethings as well, Elrond also says to his sons and the Dunedain that they should look for Elessar in the land of Rohan. I would like to hear some opinions on this. greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

03-21-2003, 08:44 PM	#6
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Thank you Lathspell, you have just made one thought into another. To tell you the truth, I was wondering the same thing. All right everyone, more silver pennies from Lathspeel and I for your thoughts. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

03-21-2003, 11:53 AM	#4
KingAragorn Guest Posts: n/a	First of all, The Lady of the Silver wood has the gift for Forseeing. Also, she has the Mirror of Galadriel which shows both things that are and things that have not yet come to pass.

03-22-2003, 01:23 AM	#7
Lyta_Underhill Haunted Halfling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules Posts: 841	Greetings to all present! One thing I thought of was what is the connection between Galadriel and Gandalf? They both bear a great Ring. Perhaps they connect through it, just as Gandalf and Frodo did briefly at Amon Hen, when Gandalf's voice is heard by Frodo to say "Take off the Ring, fool!" Maybe Galadriel heard Gandalf's voice at the moment of his need, and she acted upon it. Also, it is possible that Elrond merely remembers his lore quite well! I would think this more a gift of intuition and foresight on Elrond's part. He reads the old verse about the Paths of the Dead and has a realization that Aragorn is the one mentioned there. Would Aragorn have taken the Paths had Elrond not suggested it? Who knows? Isn't Elrond renowned for his keeping of lore? I'd think this was a thinking man putting two threads together and coming out with a revelation... drops two pennies in and bows to the gathered dignitaries--then scurries out and breaks a priceless statue in the process...one can never escape this life without a little humbling... Cheers, Lyta (who believes in magic and prophecy and all that, but holds to living in the moment like her hero, Peregrin Took!) __________________ “…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.”

03-23-2003, 09:57 AM	#9
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Perhaps when Gandalf was lying naked on the mountain top not quite dead or alive his 'grey mist' wasn't as strong as usual? It's possible (in my embarrasingly un-Tolkien-educated mind) that at that time when he was not in full control of himself that Galadriel was able to see him from afar. Or at least to feel his presence, and that would cause her to send out a searcher, for if he were truly fallen, than wouldn't she be unable to feel his presence in ME? And then she bows and as she turns to leave, this wonderful group points out the flaws in her thought processes, and she is humbled. Very forcefully __________________ peace