What is the Chance of the Valar Fighting for the Free People During the Third age?

[R.R.J Tolkien]

What is the Chance of the Valar Fighting for the Free People During the Third age?


“Long years in Arda [Melkor] held dominion over most of the lands of earth.”
-Valaquenta

If Sauron had the upper hand and was winning the war of the ring would the valar send help? Or, even, why did the valar not destroy Sauron in the third age the first place? I think there are a few reasons. In the first age of course the valar intervened and fought against Melkor and Sauron, yet they are not perfect divine beings but created by Eru, just look at Melkor. When the valar did come to ME it was usually by the efforts of a few to convince the rest to act.Even during the first age they most often neglected middle earth even when arda was under the dominion of melkor and darkness. Even those who lived in ME like melian who married an elf, left Doriath to destruction and returned to the west.

“They [valar] became more and more enamored of valinor, and went there more often and stayed their longer. Middle-earth was left to little defended, and too little protected against Melkor.”
-J.R.R Tolkien Myths Transformed

The valar resided in Aman, not middle earth, and they rarely came to ME and only fought in two battle [against morgoth who was no longer in ME in the third age] in the first age and none in the second.

“Middle earth they [valar] left it for long unguarded, and the lordship of Morgoth was uncontested save by the valor of the Noldor”
-Of men the sillmarillion


In Morgoths Ring Ainulindale D it reads “But in valinor the valar dwelt with all their kin and folk and because of the beauty and bliss of that realm they came seldom now to Middle earth” What was omitted the earlier version C where yavanna and orome came to ME to visit. Tolkien seemed to be moving towards a more distant valar even in the first age. So the valar in part neglected a corrupted Middle Earth [by morgoth] because they dwelt in paradise, hard to blame them. So instead of protecting middle earth they

“The valar took refuge from Melkor....and built and fortified Valinor.”
-Myths Transformed

It might seem odd but another reason was their love of middle earths natural beauty and not wanting to see it further destroyed caused some valar to not intervene with its affairs. In the later sillmarillion it reads “Aule was grieved, and it is said that he [and others of the valar] had before been unwilling to strive with Melkor, foreboding the hurts of the world that must come of that strife.” Morgoth had put some of his power into the matter of earth itself and caused corruption and the “fall”, to destroy him would also hurt the earth itself.

“These lands upon either side of sirdon were ruinous and desolate because of the war of powers.”
-Grey Annals the war of the Jewels

But other reasons also must have played a role. The valar must of felt betrayed by the children of iluvatar. In the first age the elves betrayed them and left paradise for middle earth and brought death to valinor. A few times elves sent boats west to ask the valar for help. They all went unanswered and it appears at times they were killed by Osse.

“His ship [Voronwe] foundered in a great storm within sight og land, and he alone survived for Ulmo saved him from the wrath of Osse.”
-Grey Annals the war of the Jewels

“During the period of the exile of the Noldor the valar had for the time being cut all communications between Aman and Middle-earth.”
-MR -Athrabeth Finrod Andreth


Men more often sided with Morgoth in the fist age and fought against the valar in the war of wrath. In the second age Amadil went west to ask the valar for help but was denied. Than the numoneeans attacked the valar and almost brought destruction to valinor. As a result eru remade the world and removed valinor and it became distant from ME.

“We of the eldar believe that men are often a grief to Manwe, who knows most the mind of illuvatar.”
-Morgoths Ring Ainulindale D [latest version]


Eru might not have allowed the valar to interfere after this change in the world. So we read in Morgoths Ring “Many other valinor creatures....have not yet been seen upon Middle-earth and perchance never now shall be, since the fashion of the world has changed.”

“Valinor and even eressea are removed, remaining only in the memory of the earth.”
-Letters 131

And we read in the later sillmarillion during the first age Orome hunted melkors servants “but the valaroma [his horn] is blown no more upon Middle-earth since the change of the world and the fading of the elves.” So we see also the fading of the elves as a cause for the neglect of ME by the valar. The Sillmarillion in of Fenor it reads “Melkor most hated the Eldar....because.... he saw the reason for the arising of the valar, and his own downfall.” Andreth [human] in the first age says

“The valar do not trouble us [mankind] either with care or instruction.”
-Andreth Athrabeth Finrod AH Andreth

“There came no vala to guide men, or summon them to dwell in valinor and men have feared the valar, rather than loved them, and have not understood the purposes of the powers being at variance with them.”
-Of men the sillmarillion

“The dealings of the Ainur have indeed been motley with the elves.”
-On the beginnings of days


And by the war of the ring, very few Noldor elves were left on ME and even those few were leaving. The war of the ring was the time for mankind to rule ME.

“Manwe knew that before long the dominion of men must begin. And the making of history would then be committed to them.... Manwe knew of Sauron, of course.... Sauron however was a problem that men had to deal with.... Sauron's first defeat was achieved by the Numenoreans alone.”
-Myths Transformed

The strength of the valor was also greatly reduced by the third age and might have contributed to their reluctance to act. Feanor argued in the first age after the destruction of the two trees they could not even protect Valor from Morgoth how could they protect Middle-earth. In Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth Tolkien says of the valar “They had sufficient power for their functions.” Their main functions were to create the world, help the Noldor elves and most of all to fight morgoth. By the third age those were no longer needed functions and the valar became obsolete and likely since the power Eru granted them was no longer in need, their power was reduced. After the destruction of Morgoth we read in myths transformed “it was also, in a sense the end of manwe's prime function and task as Eldar king.”

“The valar were like architects..... they become less and less important as the plan was more and more nearly achieved. Men will also fade when they complete their function.”
-J.R.R Tolkien Myths Transformed

Further the valar had lost a great deal of power creating the world as well as healing the world's ills of Melkor and the war of wrath. By the third age it is likely they were reduced a good deal, even maiar such as Gandlaf it is said, was scarred of Sauron and did not want to go to ME. Sauron's power was great.

“Sauron was greater, effectively, in the Second Age, than Morgoth at the end of the First.”
-MR Myths Transformed

Of course one would say, the Valar did act, they sent the Istari. True. Would they just have sent more maiar to help if the battle went ill for the free peoples? I am not sure. Maiar at times sided with Melkor and Sauron and at least one of the Istari, Sauroman, turned against the free people. In this way the valar hurt rather than helped the free peoples. The two blue wizards did nothing to help the free people and most likely followed sauroman's lead.

“I really do not know anything clearly about the other two – since they do not concern the history of the N.W. I think they went as emissaries to distant regions, East and South, far out of Númenórean range: missionaries to 'enemy-occupied' lands, as it were. What success they had I do not know; but I fear that they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.”
-J.R.R Tolkien Letters 211

If this is true and these wizards started cults [evil magic of sauron/sauroman] for the eastlings, than three of the maiar helped Sauron rather than the free people. Of the two who helped the free people. Radagast did little as he fell in love with birds and the animals of Mirkwood and did not concern himself with anything outside of his animals. The only maiar that fulfilled his role was Gandalf. Surly this was not the intention of the valar. I think it could be argued they hurt rather than helped the free peoples. Asking the valar for more help might do the same.

[Andsigil]

Arguably, mankind and Middle Earth were in more danger in the Second Age (from themselves and Sauron) than the Third, and it took Ar-Pharazon attempting an amphibious assault of Valinor for them to act.

I don't see the Valar as lifting a finger, really.

• Sauron was but a Maiar and could only become just-so powerful
• Most of the elves had already relocated to Valinor
• The Third Age was an age of Men, and I can't think of any time in the Silmarillion when the Valar exercised naked power on mankind's behalf (collectively, not individually, and not in the way they did for elvenkind & opposing the Vala, Morgoth). Men had the gift of death and the gift of self-determination, and I've always had the impression that they were much more left to their own fates.

[Aiwendil]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Arguably, mankind and Middle Earth were in more danger in the Second Age (from themselves and Sauron) than the Third, and it took Ar-Pharazon attempting an amphibious assault of Valinor for them to act.

And even in that case, the Valar themselves didn't act; they merely petitioned Iluvatar to intervene, and Iluvatar took action.

It seems that the Valar had been somewhat traumatized by the destruction wrought in their earlier wars with Melkor. In the later versions of the legends, they don't even come themselves at the end of the First Age; the host they send is made up of Maiar and Elves led by Eonwe.

That's not to say that they would necessarily have abandoned Middle-earth entirely. I think that if Sauron had achieved total victory at the end of the Third Age, the Valar would have responded by sending more covert emissaries along the lines of the Istari to try to work against him. But I don't think they would have come against him in force.

[Rhun charioteer]

I think in the event of a total and crushing Sauronic victory, the valar would have been left with no choice but to intervene directly. Becuase Sauron would be able to rule unopposed as a god king until the very end of Arda at that point if they did not.

[Zigûr]

Personally I don't think the Valar would have ever directly intervened. Even if Sauron had triumphed and the Ring had survived, in the end, even if it took thousands of years, his empire would have destroyed itself. It was the nature of evil in Arda to be fissiparous.

The fact that the Valar sent the Istari to Middle-earth in the Third Age is testament to their responsibility to minimise the sufferings of the Children of Eru in the face of the evils of Melkor. While I believe Sauron's empire would inevitably have failed, it would have been against the morals, duty and purpose of the Valar to allow the Children's suffering to be needlessly prolonged.

[R.R.J Tolkien]

Originally Posted by Rhun charioteer

I think in the event of a total and crushing Sauronic victory, the valar would have been left with no choice but to intervene directly. Becuase Sauron would be able to rule unopposed as a god king until the very end of Arda at that point if they did not.

and yet Morgoth and sauron both did that for long time periods.

[Rhun charioteer]

Originally Posted by R.R.J Tolkien

and yet Morgoth and sauron both did that for long time periods.

Well let's imagine a Sauron victory scenario.

Frodo doesn't lose the ring in at Mount Doom and leaves-he is eventually slain by the Nazgul who perhaps pretend to obey him or only do so in the most basic fashion.

The ring is presented to Sauron, who puts it on. Immediately the elf lords sense this and remove their rings.

At the black gate Gandalf and Aragorn are both slain along with the host of the free people's gathered, Minas Tirith is sacked and burned and Gondor falls in months, Rohan is overwhelmed, once Sauron's human armies of Rhun take Erebor and slay all the dwarves and Northmen present, Lorien and Mirkwood are overrun-the elves either make a last ditch attempt to fleet to their ships or they are surrounded and cut down. Galadriel might allow her people time to flee. While she herself perishes.

Sauron's host regroups in Eriador, and with all resistance crushed reaches Rivendale, by now the elves have hit the gas and are only fighting a delaying action to allow their kin to escape.

Sauron reigns triumphant over Arda.

The elves are broken. The dwarves isolated or destroyed, it matters not, and men all kneel to him, and those that don't face fire and sword.

The heir of Isildur is dead, and Mithrandir has failed.

Sauron now has total dominion over Middle Earth.

There is no last refuge, no place to hide-maybe some holdouts in the mountains remain, or refugee camps but they can be destroyed at his leisure.

In this scenario-the valar have two choices-intervene directly and decisively or let Sauron rule indefinitely. Maybe nurturing every flower that grows and every hope of a whipped slave or dreaming child. But it will take eons in this scenario for this little resistance to coalesce into something that could defeat Sauron.