For all who study tolkien's languages!

[Arvegil145]

Hello!

I myself am an editor on the "Translations from the Elvish" part of this barrow. And I would be exceedingly grateful for any input from the linguists among our fellows!

Now...to get to the point!

Since we are revising the "The Silmarillion" (much more elaborate than the '77 version) I would ask from you an advice concerning the updating of names coming from the earlier versions of the legendarium:

- Gereth: is it a valid name in Sindarin?
- Evranin: same thing...
- Hendor: same thing...
- Vaire: this might be a little problematic considering it is also a name of a Vala in the later mythology (although it is a valid name) - are there any alternate names?
- Ilfrin/Ilfiniol - is it valid in Sindarin?
- Nielthi - same thing...
- Fankil - could there be a cognate in Quenya
- Ermon & Elmir - do these names bear in significance in either Sindarin or Quenya?
- Daurin - what about that?
- Naugladur - could there be an appropriate rendering of his name to Sindarin
- Gostir (a name of dragon) - what about this one?
- Bodruith - how would you render his name in Sindarin?
- Evromord - same thing...
- Tavrobel - I'll go nuts if I don't find any cognate! (actually only cognate I could think of is Taurobel)


So, that it's for a while. (I hope I'm not overbearing too much - but I'm not well versed in languages.)

Thank you in advance!

[William Cloud Hicklin]

At least with regards to the names of the Valar, I see no reason to update them (Tolkien never did), just ascribe them to Valarin. "Vaire" can be taken as a naming in honor of the Valie: Michael is a common name in the Anglosphere but certainly isn't Anglo-Saxon!

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

At least with regards to the names of the Valar, I see no reason to update them (Tolkien never did), just ascribe them to Valarin. "Vaire" can be taken as a naming in honor of the Valie: Michael is a common name in the Anglosphere but certainly isn't Anglo-Saxon!

Well, I was not talking about Vairë the Valie, I was talking about Vairë (elf), wife of Lindo, the keeper of The Cottage of Lost Play.

And as for else, I was seeking an advice of how to render those names from Qenya and Gnomish to Sindarin and Quenya.

But anyway, thanks for the input.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

Well, I was not talking about Vairë the Valie, I was talking about Vairë (elf), wife of Lindo, the keeper of The Cottage of Lost Play.

And as for else, I was seeking an advice of how to render those names from Qenya and Gnomish to Sindarin and Quenya.

But anyway, thanks for the input.

I think I covered this in my post on the parallel thread: those "rules", even if they exist, certainly haven't bgeen sorted out by anyone! But it might help to sort out which BoLT names were Eldarissa and which Noldorissa; I believe the former is the default, and the latter only those characters who are explicitly Gnomes.

----

Vaire: I realize you were talking about the mistress of Mar Vanwa Tyalieva; my suggestion was that she was named for (or in honor of) the Valie.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I think I covered this in my post on the parallel thread: those "rules", even if they exist, certainly haven't bgeen sorted out by anyone! But it might help to sort out which BoLT names were Eldarissa and which Noldorissa; I believe the former is the default, and the latter only those characters who are explicitly Gnomes.

What I was talking about is to take the MEANING of a name in earlier conceptions of J.R.R.'s linguistic material - and THEN to form a Sindarin or Quenya (or Telerin!) translation of that meaning.

----

Vaire: I realize you were talking about the mistress of Mar Vanwa Tyalieva; my suggestion was that she was named for (or in honor of) the Valie.

No problem. But the name Vairë in itself means "weaver", so, personally, I don't have any qualms with it.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I think I covered this in my post on the parallel thread: those "rules", even if they exist, certainly haven't bgeen sorted out by anyone! But it might help to sort out which BoLT names were Eldarissa and which Noldorissa; I believe the former is the default, and the latter only those characters who are explicitly Gnomes.

Are the names of Gereth, Evranin and Evromord still valid in Sindarin?

[jallanite]

What do you mean by valid?

If you mean are those names found in in any text following HoME 1 and 2, then they are not.

If you mean is there anything in the forms which phonetically prevents them from being Sindarin, well I don’t see anything except possibly the final -rd in Evromord. The combination rd does not, as far as I remember, appear elsewhere in Sindarin in final position (though -nd and -ng do.) But that may only mean that final -rd is a rarity in Sindarin, not that Sindarin categorically does not allow it to exist.