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01-01-2015, 07:37 PM | #1 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Barad-Dur
Posts: 196
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Boats travelling up and down Anduin and Lorien's isolation.
In the Fellowship of the Ring Aragorn stated that light boats used to travel from Wilderland down to Osgiliath. Surely if they had, they would have sailed past Lorien and contact would have been made with the elves that lived there?
Yet the impression is given that there was little or no such contact throughout the Third Age. |
01-01-2015, 09:04 PM | #2 | |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
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01-02-2015, 02:38 AM | #3 | |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The best seat in the Golden Perch
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It's not that contact wasn't possible, it's entirely down to the estrangement of Men and Elves. In the late Third Age the only real contact between Men and Elves (outside of isolated and special cases such as the Rangers) appears to have been that between Thranduil's realm and Lake-town. So no, you haven't discovered a plot hole.
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05-04-2015, 08:43 PM | #4 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
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For one thing, Haldir noted that he knew the Common Speech because 'there are some of us still who go abroad for news and the watching of our enemies, and they speak the languages of other lands'. I further posit that Lórien had occasional encounters with Men from Gondor, based on Faramir's words to Frodo. Quote:
I wouldn't think the intercourse was a common thing, but both Lórien and Gondor seem to have derived some benefit from it, else it would have stopped altogether.
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05-05-2015, 03:53 AM | #5 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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I would second what Inzil said. Probably there would be occassions, rather limited to individuals, where the two kin would meet. I am imagining it kind of in the same way it was happening with the Hobbits and Elves, for instance (and after all, Hobbits are also Men, only Small). The local Bilbos and Frodos of Gondor meeting local Gildors who go to pilgrimages to the Elven harbours of old by the Bay of Belfalas (the traffic would be much bigger, of course, while they were still in use), and who knows, maybe even one weirdo local Farmer Maggot from Eastfold could make acquaintances with some Lórien patrols. But such cases would be rare, not a rule.
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05-05-2015, 04:56 AM | #6 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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Is it possible that the Woodmen and their kin who lived along the Anduin had some contact with the Elves of Lórien and/or Mirkwood?
And evidently the surviving Dúnedain of the North still had a very close relationship with the Elves (although that's the Elves of Rivendell, not of Lórien). It seems it was in the south that there was the greatest estrangement, in Rohan and Gondor, which probably makes sense given the geographical separation.
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05-14-2015, 08:14 AM | #7 | ||
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
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As we see here they had some folklore about Lórien and were probably aware that it was Elvish land, but their yearning to catch a glimpse of its beauty was mingled with fear, and their first reaction to the spreading mist was dismay at being touched by Elven magic. Even when the mist proved beneficial to them only his horse's instinct convinced Eorl that it was indeed harmless. (Borondir, on the other hand, seems to have known a little better, as is to be expected from an Gondorian.) I suppose any Men of Rohan or the North travelling on the Anduin by boat would have felt much the same: they would marvel at the Golden Wood and whisper some old tales to each other, maybe tell their children and grandchildren about it with some pride, but landing on the western shore and making contact with the Elves was a wholly different matter and restricted to few individuals.
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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