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03-14-2001, 10:42 PM | #1 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 42
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Ungoliant and the Valar
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 2</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> In the Silm it is said that Ungoliant after drinking the blood of the two trees and slurping down all of Varda's wells was so powerful that she could of killed Melkor. Now do you think at that point she was more powerful then the other valar. Or did Melkor (Morgoth) after taking the form of the Dark Knight loose some power in whole "falling from grace" if you will? Or do you think he was still the most powerful? And would the type of Valar have any difference in fighting Ungoliant? Like for instance I think Manwe would get his butt kicked because he seems to be not powerful (which he wasn't) but his power seems to be with wisdom and the emerged in the will of Illuvatar. So would Tulkas (my favorite) be able to take Ungoliant by himself? I think he could. </p> |
03-14-2001, 10:51 PM | #2 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 98
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 68</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bloody.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar hmm... i dont think that ungoliant would havve been able to beat all of the valar then. although Melkor did lose some power by putting it into his creatures he was still extremely powerful, because of this ungoliant might have been poewrful to take out 1 valar at a time if they came in groups of 2+ she wouldn't have beaten them. if lindil comes youll have your answer <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p> |
03-14-2001, 10:53 PM | #3 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 42
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 3</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bloody.jpg" align=absmiddle> Ungoliant and the Valar And was Orome only powerful because of his hosts he hunted with? </p> |
03-14-2001, 11:06 PM | #4 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 98
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 70</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bloody.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar hmm.. i think ill have to check on that one, be back in a sec Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p> |
03-14-2001, 11:10 PM | #5 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 98
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 71</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bloody.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar Lords of the Valar Queens of the Valar (Valier) Manwë Súlimo Varda Elentári Ulmo Yavanna Kementári Aulë the Smith Nienna Oromë Estë the Gentle Mandos (Námo) Vairë the Weaver Lórien (Irmo) Vána the Ever-young Tulkas Astaldo Nessa This table shows the fourteen Valar in 'due order' (i.e. in descending order of power). Names shown in bold indicate one of the eight Aratar, the mightiest of the Valar. does this help? Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p> |
03-15-2001, 08:50 AM | #6 |
Shadow of Malice
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice
Posts: 679</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bloody.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar According to Silm., I believe it states that Manwë is the mightiest among the Valar, then Ulmo above Varda, and then Aulë above Varda and Yavanna. After Aulë it seems unclear in what exact order it goes other than Oromë, Namo, Varda, Yavanna and Nienna complete the Aratar. It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p> |
03-15-2001, 09:17 AM | #7 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 98
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 80</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bloody.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar well i'm not sure if it's correct (what i said earlier) i got it from www.myprecious.freeuk.com take it up w/ them if u disagree <img src=ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p> |
03-15-2001, 10:40 AM | #8 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 64
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 17</TD><TD><img src=http--images.neopets.com-images-newfirefaerie.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bloody.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar Not regarding that table that just confuses me... Manwe was the most powerful but not fighting power. Tulkas would have won, though, as he was originally a god of war. Melkor became weaker as he became bad, a bit like Saruman did. Two or more Valar would have beaten Ungoliant, definately. =) ~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p> |
03-15-2001, 01:12 PM | #9 |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Out there with the truth. Come find me.
Posts: 317
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 7</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar This sort of goes back to the question of what Ungoliant was to begin with. I mean, it says she came out of shadow and darkness, but if there is an explanation of what kind of spirit she is I think I must have missed it (entirely possible). As for the question about the Valar being able to beat her, I think most assuredly so. After all, the Balrogs fought her off and (though we don't know how many of them there were) they are certainly less powerful than the Valar together. About Tulkas, he could beat Melkor even before Melkor started losing his powers. I think he could have kicked some spider butt...if only they hadn't been feasting, *sigh*. -*-The X Phial-*- You must believe in free will, you have no choice. Isaac Singer</p>
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03-15-2001, 01:19 PM | #10 |
Shadow of Malice
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice
Posts: 680</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar I took a look at the site, it seems ok, since they had the Valar and Valier divided. It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p> |
03-15-2001, 07:27 PM | #11 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 24
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton
Posts: 39</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> ... Manwe and Varda's powers both help boost eachothers </p> |
03-15-2001, 09:58 PM | #12 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 98
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 85</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: ... yes, i think its the same w/ all of the Valar and the Valier. Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p> |
03-16-2001, 08:12 AM | #13 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,037
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 152</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar I think Ungoliant was in her origin a Maia,since it is said that Melkor corrupted her to his service in the beginning. The Valar were certainly more powerful if this is true. Those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel. </p>
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03-16-2001, 08:32 AM | #14 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 154</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar And just a suggestion for those who haven't: be sure to peruse the older threads. A lot of things have been discussed here over time,and copying an old thread in a new one is a distinct possibility. Those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel. </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000125>Inziladu n</A> at: 3/16/01 9:34:27 am
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
03-17-2001, 01:14 AM | #15 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 98
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 92</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar i think ungoliant was evil in the beginning and it more means melkor corupted her to his ways. i dont think ungoliant was a maia since it says she came out of the great darkness, and that the light drove away most of the creatures that were there. p.s. im not sure about this so correct me if im wrong Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p> |
03-17-2001, 09:50 AM | #16 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 155</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Ungoliant and the Valar <blockquote>Quote:<hr> "The Eldar knew not whence she (Ungoliant) came;but some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda,when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwë,and that in the beginning she was one of those that he corrupted to his service."<hr></blockquote> All the Valar as well as their servants,the Maiar came into Arda from the darkness of the Void. I think that is what is meant here. As for Ungoliant's, origin,a corrupted Maia seems the most likely. Nothing else seems to fit. Those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel. </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000125>Inziladu n</A> at: 3/17/01 11:12:41 am
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
11-29-2002, 10:54 AM | #17 |
Wight
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Minas Morgul, Morgul Vale, Mordor
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i dont think she could have beeten morgoth you gotta remember the sims where burning his hands also the balrogs beat her off and there far less powerful
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11-30-2002, 06:30 PM | #18 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 53
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Even after she gorged herself Ungoliant (even with Melkor) couldn't even have beat Orome or Tulkas alone, much less Manwe (he wasn't weak he was the strongest Vala). That's why she belched forth a big cloud of Darkness...and her and Melkor ran like hell...with the host of Orome hot on their tails.
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11-30-2002, 07:11 PM | #19 |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Agree Thorondil.
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My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset! |
11-30-2002, 07:55 PM | #20 |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Ungoliant: *munch munch slurp*
Melkor: Uh.... shouldn't we get going? Ungoliant: Just a minute, I'm still hungry. Melkor: What are you, a hobbit? Let's go! Any second now the Valar are gonna notice us... *the lights go out* Melkor: Well *&%#. Now how're we going to explain this. Ungoliant: I'm still hungry. Melkor: Shut up.
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