Boromir - An example of a man?

[Arathorn111]

Long time lurker, first time poster and I'm afraid I might be a bit to affected by the films. I've read the books, as well as the silmarillon, several times but watched the movies countless of times.

Anyway my question is about Boromir and I apologise if this has been discussed earlier.

Is Boromir Tolkiens representation of an ordinary man? He was said to be further from the race of Numenor than his brother and father and so, close to a middle man. Do you think his main part in the story was that of showing how an ordinary man would react?

When dark times is ahead he almost gives up hope and search for an easy solution (the ring). He's easily corrupted by it but shows that, in his heart, he is still good. Was this a way for tolkien to describe the nature of men, in middle earth and in the present, or am I interpreting this a bit too far?

Sorry about the English if it's not perfect, English isn't my first language.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hi Arathorn111, and welcome to the 'Downs.

I would say, in many ways, yes, Boromir is representing an "average" man, even though he was not really "average" man, because after all, he is from one of the most noble families in Gondor. He is more a Dúnadan than most. But his choices are representing that what in Lord of the Rings really means "normal Men" or "the weakness of Men" - the reason why most Men (or even other races) are most often corrupted in Middle-Earth. He is not the kind of hero who would resist the temptation of power offered by the Ring (there are really few such people in Middle-Earth and also in the real world, in fact, the ones who seem to be resistant to it - at least for a while - are the Hobbits, the simple folk who are content with the little they have), but he is still not an "average" man because he is a hero who is a fighter, who stands against the odds, who does not give up hope and who also redeems himself in a self-sacrificial battle to protect Merry and Pippin. So the answer is yes and no, but I assume that from the point of view where you are asking - if I understood it correctly- the answer is yes.

[Pervinca Took]

Welcome to the Downs, Arathorn!

A very interesting question, and one that I need to ponder. It set me thinking about Eomer in comparison. Another high profile warrior, as it were, and quite apart from the race of Numenor. The Rohirrim are perhaps nearer to "loving the sword for its brightness" than Faramir, too.

Is Eomer, too, the ordinary man, with limitations? He loves his sister, but does not notice what Aragorn does. As Gandalf pointed out, he had deeds of arms, and the free fieds ... he abominated Wormtongue and would die to save his sister from him, but he did not see, perhaps, the pain and burden that the mundane aspects of a woman's life were to Eowyn.

Boromir is prouder than Eomer. More flawed, perhaps ... more completely drawn. Would Eomer have fallen to the Ring in the same context? Boromir was driven largely by a desperation to save his people. Eomer's people were threatened too ... not only the King and his sister ... his land is not on the border of Mordor, but Saruman is uncomfortably near, and so are his armies ....

Sorry not to have answered your question properly. But of the high ranking men, and hence the ones we see the most of, you have got me thinking that maybe Eomer and Boromir are the most ordinary.

[Arathorn111]

Legate:

No I didn't really mean that Boromir was an ordinary man, if that was the case he wouldn't have fitted in with the rest of the company and would, from the readers point, seem misplaced. I think that the point was that he wasn't an ordinary man from middle earth, just that he represented the ordinary man in his actions. He was a great man, but only a man.

Pervinca:

Thank you!

I think that Eomer is, in many ways, a moore ordinary man than Boromir. He's also not, as a character, as complex as Boromir, mainly because he isn't faced with the "problem" of the ring. The question about how he would react is an interesting one, but in my mind he would have reacted close to what Boromir did. Perhaps not as valiantly as Bormir though, as he is "a lesser man"?

[Arathorn111]

And, of course, a Thank you to you as well Legate.

[Belegorn]

It would appear that many of the ordinary Men in M-E were very subject to evil and tended to be evil. I'm not sure Boromir fits this.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Arathorn111

Legate:

No I didn't really mean that Boromir was an ordinary man, if that was the case he wouldn't have fitted in with the rest of the company and would, from the readers point, seem misplaced. I think that the point was that he wasn't an ordinary man from middle earth, just that he represented the ordinary man in his actions. He was a great man, but only a man.

Pervinca:

Thank you!

I think that Eomer is, in many ways, a moore ordinary man than Boromir. He's also not, as a character, as complex as Boromir, mainly because he isn't faced with the "problem" of the ring. The question about how he would react is an interesting one, but in my mind he would have reacted close to what Boromir did. Perhaps not as valiantly as Bormir though, as he is "a lesser man"?

Being susceptible to the ring is a lot more complicated than being a High or Middle Man. The Numenoreans were the highest of men and they fell. Denethor was a throw back to the Numenoreans of old and he would have used the ring. Galadriel was sorely tempted and in her younger years shr might have given in. I think a few of the Noldor princes like Maeglin or Curufin certainly would have.

Boromir was not like his immediate family but that is not why he fell in the end. His pride, desperation to save Gondor and the desire for glory is what led to his fall. In the end the best protection against the ring seems to be having a realistic understanding of who you were and rejecting power. Therefore would say eomer was less likely to fall under the ring than Boromir.

In terms of character and strength Boromir was exceptional in ability but like the middle men valued ohysical prowess more than learning.

Average but pure people are thr Hobbits.

[Pervinca Took]

My gut feeling is that Eomer would not have fallen to the Ring. He doesn't ever seem to have the pride that Boromir does, and I think that was simply a part of Boromir's personality. Plus the fact that the need of strong warriors meant that he was very much prized in his day. His father's favouritism didn't help, either. All this does point to Boromir being the ordinary man, because his flaws are very human.

Eomer deferred to Aragorn from the beginning. "Elfstone, since the day you rose out of the northern mists I have loved you, and that love shall not fail." I don't really see unwarranted ambition or pride in Eomer. He wants Wormtongue out of the way, but to serve the King again. "Take this, dear lord. It was ever at your service." I think he would have deferred to Aragorn had he been on the quest in Boromir's place, too. Perhaps this is natural, because he is of a royal line, but of a much smaller kingdom. The kings of Rohan are like Old English kings - in some ways more like chieftains. The majesty of Gondor makes Boromir grow up with grander ideas, in a way, even though his father is only the Steward. Faramir tells Frodo how it rather bothered Boromir that his father was not king. Frodo says he always treated Aragorn with respect, but Faramir points out that they had not yet reached Minas Tirith or become rivals in her wars. And Eomer's respect and admiration for Aragorn seems to me much stronger. "Wingfoot I name you." He is clearly very moved by Aragorn's loyalty to his companions and his heroic pursuit of the orcs in an attempt to rescue them. Boromir would be moved by such things too, though ... but he didn't witness such an act ... yes, he saw Aragorn bravely protecting the hobbits throughout the quest, but he was protecting them too ... whereas it probably played a very large part in Eomer's love and respect for Aragorn.

I realise in typing this that my memories of Eomer are very much bound up with Antony Hyde's radio performance. Perhaps rather unfairly overlooked, because he can be a a little overlooked as a character, as his sister is seen as more exceptional?

Average but pure people are thr Hobbits.

I wonder how pure Lotho was in the beginning.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

My gut feeling is that Eomer would not have fallen to the Ring. He doesn't ever seem to have the pride that Boromir does, and I think that was simply a part of Boromir's personality. Plus the fact that the need of strong warriors meant that he was very much prized in his day. His father's favouritism didn't help, either. All this does point to Boromir being the ordinary man, because his flaws are very human.

Gandalf makes it clear to Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli that the Ring was especially hard for Boromir to resist because of his status as a military leader and a man-at-arms. It would seem the Ring presented him with an acute vision of it's being both the solution to Gondor's problems and a means for his own glorification.

You know, I think a better example of an "ordinary man" would be Barliman Butterbur. No high birth, no lofty ambitions, just a man with an inn.