Should she glow?

[Lalaith]

So, Tauriel´s glow of healing...did it make any sense?

I´m assuming that the idea for the glow came from this:

for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power.’

'I thought that I saw a white figure that shone and did not grow dim like the others. Was that Glorfindel then?'

'Yes, you saw him for a moment as he is upon the other side: one of the mighty of the Firstborn. He is an Elf-lord of a house of princes.”

But Tauriel was just a lowly Silvan elf. She She´d not been to the Blessed Realm - she may even have been Avari. Did she have any kind of right to glow?

[alatar]

Just saw DoS - more elsewhere. Could it be that 'the glow' was just from Kili's point of view, as he was far down the black Morgul road looking back with eyes of love and she was his savior - and pretty attractive as well?

[cellurdur]

Short answer is no.

Long answer is an orc should not have had a morgul arrow and Tauriel should not have been able to heal such a wound.

[Galadriel55]

Real answer: does TauriElle even exist?

(I haven't watched the movie so I can't give any actual ideas on the matter)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

So, Tauriel´s glow of healing...did it make any sense?

I'm assuming that the idea for the glow came from this:

Nice to see you, Lal! Your assumption is faulty, I'm afraid, as it's difficult to imagine PJ actually reading the books.

[Lalaith]

Hmm.. does the idea of Tauriel´s glow being purely in the mind of Kili, make things worse, or better...?

From a canonical point of view, I think Tauriel could have healed Kili. I just don´t think she would have glowed while doing it.

Nice to see you too Inzil *waves*

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Hmm.. does the idea of Tauriel´s glow being purely in the mind of Kili, make things worse, or better...?

From a canonical point of view, I think Tauriel could have healed Kili. I just don´t think she would have glowed while doing it.

Nice to see you too Inzil *waves*

Tauriel was a Silvan elf. Glorfindel probably the most powerful elf alive could not heal Frodo. She should not even have had more ability than Aragorn.

[Lalaith]

Ah, a nice nerdy discussion about healing, just what I was hoping for!

That's a very good point about Glorfindel.
But I suppose it could depend on whether a fragment of the blade was in the wound. In Frodo´s case, not only was there a fragment but it had been there for two weeks, working its way close to his heart.
Kili´s wound was only a couple of days old. Maybe even a Silvan elf could heal Morgul wounds if caught early.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Ah, a nice nerdy discussion about healing, just what I was hoping for!

That's a very good point about Glorfindel.
But I suppose it could depend on whether a fragment of the blade was in the wound. In Frodo´s case, not only was there a fragment but it had been there for two weeks, working its way close to his heart.
Kili´s wound was only a couple of days old. Maybe even a Silvan elf could heal Morgul wounds if caught early.

Perhaps, but I don't think an orc should have had such a weapon anyway.

Off topic, but I did not mind Tauriel's character. The only thing that annoyed me was the romance with Kili. The two are not even the same species.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Kili´s wound was only a couple of days old. Maybe even a Silvan elf could heal Morgul wounds if caught early.

I think it's more a matter of Elrond and Aragorn actually being finely trained in the art of healing that makes a difference - not the fact that neither are Silvan elves. To think that all elves have access to that kind of education is kind of weird. Then again, as a lieutenant, or whatever Tauriel is, I assume she has some basic first-aid training. Not sure if that includes healing with athelas, though.

[Lotrelf]

Is she a character in Tolkien's books or just another invention for PJ's work? I'm confused.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

Is she a character in Tolkien's books or just another invention for PJ's work? I'm confused.

The Tauriel character does not appear in the books, and is completely of the imagination of the filmmakers. If only she'd remained there.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

There's no room in Tolkien's world - call him "misogynist" if you like - for Warrior She-Elves (largely a very, very recent staple of RPGs, movies, comic books etc, plus ancient legend where, again, they were exceptional (Hippolyta, Atalanta) or divine (Athena, the Valkyries). Eowyn is a Thang precisely because she is completely unique and unexpected; as for female Elves, Tolkien merely says that "at need" they would fight to defend their children and homes. In this then they were not unlike the ancient Teutons, of whom Tacitus expressed as much surprise as his laconic style permitted; most enemy women, when the menfolk were defeated, simply accepted slavery meekly.

But the notion that a female would have been Captain of the Guard, or for that matter a member of the Guard or of any regular military body - was alien to Tolkien's imagination (and real-world experience).

(It's to be noted that in the real world right down to the present day, females were not found in ground-combat arms of the world's militaries until the last few years).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

There's no room in Tolkien's world - call him "misogynist" if you like - for Warrior She-Elves (largely a very, very recent staple of RPGs, movies, comic books etc, plus ancient legend where, again, they were exceptional (Hippolyta, Atalanta) or divine (Athena, the Valkyries). Eowyn is a Thang precisely because she is completely unique and unexpected; as for female Elves, Tolkien merely says that "at need" they would fight to defend their children and homes.

I don't recall that note about female Elves fighting, though a similar observation was made in UT about the Wainriders who had taken over the homes of the Northmen.

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

But the notion that a female would have been Captain of the Guard, or for that matter a member of the Guard or of any regular military body - was alien to Tolkien's imagination (and real-world experience).

(It's to be noted that in the real world right down to the present day, females were not found in ground-combat arms of the world's militaries until the last few years).

Not to turn this into any sort of socio-political debate, but the lack of female combat involvement in Tolkien's time and into recent years stemmed from a physical source, in addition to any sense of culture or tradition.
Having served some time in the military, I can speak to the fact that being a soldier is physically demanding. It requires not only a level of cardiovascular fitness (at which women actually can and do better men many times), but also a high degree of strength, especially upper body. Though today's weapons are much lighter in weight than in the past, it still needs physical power to carry and shoot combat arms such as shotguns, rifles, and machine guns. In earlier eras the strength required was much greater: wielding longswords and winding crossbows was many times limited even among men to the strongest. The idea of a slender Elf-woman having a position in Tolkien's Middle-earth that required melee fighting as an occupation is utter rubbish.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I don't recall that note about female Elves fighting, though a similar observation was made in UT about the Wainriders who had taken over the homes of the Northmen.

The description comes from Laws And Customs Among The Eldar [Moroth's Ring]. When speaking generally about Elvish customs, the author notes that they could vary according to time, place, or Elvish clan, but then the text goes into a specific for instance...

'There are indeed some differences between the natural inclinations of neri and nissi, and other differences that have been established by custom (varying in place and in time, and in the several races of the Eldar). For instance, the arts of healing, and all that touches on the care of the body, are among all the Eldar most practised by the nissi; whereas it was the elven-men who bore arms at need.'

... and when the essay gets specific about fighting and healing, the nissi [Elven women]...

'Indeed in dire straits or desperate defence, the nissi fought valiantly, and there was less difference in strength and speed between elven-men and elven-women that had not borne child than is seen among mortals.'

... and exceptions with respect to Elven-men and hearling are noted...

'On the other hand many elven-men were great healers and skilled in the lore of living bodies, though such men abstained from hunting, and went not to war until the last need.'

So it appears to remain that Elven-women fought under the already described scenario, and not outside it [again, even though in a more general context, customs could vary for certain reasons] -- within which scenario [in my opinion] might fall Idril arming herself [if this was to remain a detail in any updated Fall of Gondolin, that is], and possibly Galadriel's heroic defense of the Teleri [if in fact this was part of Galadriel's 'true' history].

Some ifs there.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

There's no room in Tolkien's world - call him "misogynist" if you like - for Warrior She-Elves (largely a very, very recent staple of RPGs, movies, comic books etc, plus ancient legend where, again, they were exceptional (Hippolyta, Atalanta) or divine (Athena, the Valkyries). Eowyn is a Thang precisely because she is completely unique and unexpected; as for female Elves, Tolkien merely says that "at need" they would fight to defend their children and homes. In this then they were not unlike the ancient Teutons, of whom Tacitus expressed as much surprise as his laconic style permitted; most enemy women, when the menfolk were defeated, simply accepted slavery meekly.

Well said! There is also the story of Haleth who is another exceptional case. Such cases existed, and these women are held in high esteem, but they were exceptions. A female elf doesn't casually become the Captain of the Guard or whatever TauriElle's position was.

[FerniesApple]

That freaking glow It looked like somebody had opened the fridge door behind her. and whats with the nut pillow?