New interview with Christopher Tolkien

[davem]

http://sedulia.blogs.com/sedulias_tr...irst-felt.html This is a translation of an interview CT gave recently to Le Monde.Fascinating stuff - particularly his comments on the films. Despite what lots of people seem to think I have great respect for the man and his work, but at the same time I reckon some of his/his lawyers recent decisions have been both wrong and cruel. Anyway. .......

[Inziladun]

Thanks for that link, davem. I think the interview explains a great deal about the reasoning the Estate might have in being so mulishly opposed to third-party uses of Tolkien's work. Yes, there are probably instances in which permission to use the character names and likenesses could be harmlessly granted, but I can sympathize with the desire to simply throw out the wheat along with the chaff, especially when it seems likely the latter is much more ubiquitous.

CT also expresses very clearly, much better than I ever have, the problem with the PJ movies.

"Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed by the absurdity of our time," Christopher Tolkien observes sadly. "The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has gone too far for me. Such commercialisation has reduced the esthetic and philosophical impact of this creation to nothing. There is only one solution for me: turning my head away."

That's it in a nutshell. The books have always struck a deep chord within me, but the movies have been a hollow imitation, with the main focus being money. They do nothing for me.

[Lalwendë]

The works would have fallen out of copyright at some point anyway, so once a successful adaptation was made, this was inevitable. Such is the nature of making money, like it or loathe it.

This policy, however, has not protected the family from the reality that the work now belongs to a gigantic audience, culturally far removed from the writer who conceived it.

Here's a key quote. I'm sure you could say that this is evidence that 'the author is dead' and that Barthes etc were correct about the post-modern world. On a happy note, it means that alongside Jackson's 'vision' there are many thousands of 'visions', and indeed even here many have taken up their pens and brushes and indulged in some subcreation.

On a different note - what does the journalist mean by a "gigantic audience, culturally far removed from the writer who conceived it"? Obviously in a literal sense, almost everyone is 'culturally far removed' from Tolkien, an academic who has long since passed away, he's effectively from another world, and even while alive he lived in a rareified world. Does the writer mean that the masses 'culturally far removed' cannot understand just what Tolkien meant? Or does this have a more post-modern meaning, that now his works are out there, adapted, sub-created, thoroughly well used, that the readers/audience have more 'ownership' than those who currently hold the copyright?

I have to say, good for the Estate that they finally got a cut of the profits, though they would not have them had Tolkien not sold over those rights. I wonder what they would rather have?

[Formendacil]

First off, thanks to davem for finding this article. I find myself solidly in the CT/Inziladun camp regarding sympathies but that hardly sets me apart on this site...

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

On a different note - what does the journalist mean by a "gigantic audience, culturally far removed from the writer who conceived it"? Obviously in a literal sense, almost everyone is 'culturally far removed' from Tolkien, an academic who has long since passed away, he's effectively from another world, and even while alive he lived in a rareified world. Does the writer mean that the masses 'culturally far removed' cannot understand just what Tolkien meant? Or does this have a more post-modern meaning, that now his works are out there, adapted, sub-created, thoroughly well used, that the readers/audience have more 'ownership' than those who currently hold the copyright?

I took it, as you suggest, in the sense of "dead academic of medieval things" vs. "living, less-educated children of the 30-second soundbite and Hollywood glitz", and in that respect I didn't read it as a post-modern idea at all. Within the context of the article, it seemed less to me to suggest that people today can't get the message; rather that they probably won't--not because it is inaccessible but because they are habituated to receiving things in the Hollywood mode--and Jackson has now given them the Hollywood mode.

Mind you, I already thought that beforehand, so I might be revealing *my* assumptions rather than uncovering those of the original French author...

[dreeness]

"Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed by the absurdity of our time," Christopher Tolkien observes sadly. "The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has gone too far for me. Such commercialisation has reduced the esthetic and philosophical impact of this creation to nothing. There is only one solution for me: turning my head away."

Chris must find it physically exhausting, keeping his head turned away while cashing all those enormous cheques.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by dreeness

Chris must find it physically exhausting, keeping his head turned away while cashing all those enormous cheques.

Did you miss this particular line?

This commercial galaxy is now worth several billion dollars, of which most does not go to Tolkien's heirs, and this complicates the management of his heritage for his family, which is polarized not over the images or objects, but over the respect for Tolkien's words.

That's been one of the points of contention between the Estate and Saul Zaentz and Co.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by dreeness

Chris must find it physically exhausting, keeping his head turned away while cashing all those enormous cheques.

Snide little post there

More like writing all those cheques if he were to do it personally. No idea if you can read a set of accounts but this was the first lot that popped up on a search 2007 - bout half way since the films. http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/...070405_e_c.pdf

If you do look at them you will see that the Trustees don't even take expenses which having been a finance officer for two charities I can tell you can tot up.
So these are the charities that benefitted from the cashing of "all those enormous cheques". The second figure is the previous year's donation. The Trust likes to give longterm support rather than large one off payments.

Interesting to note that the legal fees anticipated to get their dues from the films is about a years worth of donations. Shows what you can do with good PR if you can make the Tolkiens look like the bad guys in that sort of situation. Also makes you wonder what the parasites who try to freeload and cash in on Tolkien's name and work do with their profits.

The Ace Centre Advisory Trust 6,000
Action Aid 20,000
Action Contre la Faim 20,000 115,000
Action for Blind People 2,000 2,000
Aid to the Church in Need (UK) 3,000 4,000
Alzheimer's Society 2,000 2,000
Amnesty International UK 16,000 15,000
Association of International Cancer Research 2,000 -
Anglo-Peruvian Child Care Mission 2,000 -
Association pour la Promotion des Extraits Foliaires en Nutrition 6,000 5,000
Asylum Aid 2,000 -
Asylum Welcome 7,000 5,000
The Bat Conservation Trust 1,500 -
Bhopal Medical Appeal 6,000 -
The Big Issue Foundation 7,000 4,000
Birdlife International 10,000 10,000
Birmingham Diocesan Trust 3,000 3,000
Blaen Wern Farm Trust 7,500 6,500
The Bodleian Library - Archiving 35,000 -
The Bodleian Library - Digitisation costs 43,857 -
The Botley Alzheimer's Home 20,000 8,000
Breakthrough Breast Cancer 20,000 9,000
Brecon Mountain Rescue Team 5,000 -
British Friends of NSWAS 5,000 5,000
British Red Cross 3,000 -
British Refugee Council 5,000 2,000
British Retinitis Pigmentosa Society 2,000 2,000
CAFOD 8,000 5,000
Campaign to Protect Rural England 6,000 5,000
Cathedral of St Andrew and St Michael 5,000 -
Childaid to Russia and the Republics 3,000 4,000
Christian Peace Education Fund 3,000 4,000
Climate Outreach Information Network 9,000 10,000
Complementary Health Trust 3,000 1,000
Create (Arts) Limited 6,000 5,000
Cued Speech Association UK 2,000 2,000
Cutteslowe and District Community Association 3,000 1,000
Dames of Ypres/Benedictine Sisters - Kylesmore Abbey 5,000 5,000
DEC Niger Crisis Appeal - 100,000
DEC Asia Quake Appeal - 200,000
Dresden Trust 3,000 1,000
EducAid Sierra Leone 3,000 2,000
Emmaus Oxford 9,000 -
Enfants du Monde - Droits de I'Homme 15,000 15,000
Farm Crisis Network 2,000 -
Find Your Feet Limited 25,000 113,000
The Foundation for Children with Leukaemia 2,000 2,000
The Friends of the Connection at St Martin-in-the-Fields 10,000 10,000
Gloucester Community Church 3,000 2,000
The Grail Centre Trust 50,000 -
Guideposts Trust Limited 9,000 -
The Guild of Handicraft Trust 3,000 2,000
The GYL Project 2,500 1,500
Handicap International 15,000 -
Helen and Douglas House 3,000 -
Help the Aged 2,000 -
The Hope Foundation for Cancer Research 2,000 1,000
The Horse's Voice 3,000 1,000
The Howard League for Penal Reform 9,000 5,000
Inter Faith Network 3,000 1,000
Intercontinental Church Society 3,000 1,000
International Women's Health Coalition 10,000 -
Independence at Home (formerly Invalids at Home) 2,000 2,000
Koestler Trust 5,000 -
Lady Balogh's Psychotherapy Trust 3,000 1,000
Landmine Action 5,000 -
Let the Children Live 2,000 -
The Lincoln Clinic and Centre for Psychotherapy 3,000 1,000
Macmillan Cancer Relief 2,000 1,000
Medical Foundation for the Care of the Victims of Torture 10,000 10,000
Medecins du Monde 10,000 13,000
Medecins Sans Frontieres ( France) 25,000 15,000
Mildmay Mission Hospital 6,000 4,000
MIND (The National Association for Mental Health) 2,000 2,000
Music in Lyddington 2,000 1,000
National Children's Home 2,000 2,000
National Council on Ageing 3,000 2,000
National Deaf Children's Society - Birmingham and District Region 2,000 -
New College Oxford 5,000 -
The Oratory School 10,000 5,000
Orchestra of St. Johns Limited 6,000 4,000
Oxfam International 20,000 -
Oxford Bach Choir 6,000 3,000
Oxford Homeless Medical Fund 9,000 10,000
Oxford Parent Infant Project (OXPIP) 6,000 5,000
The Oxford Philomusica Trust 6,000 5,000
The Oxford Playhouse Trust 9,000 5,000
Oxfordshire Touring Theatre Company Ltd 1,000 -
Oxfordshire Victoria County History 6,000 -
Performing Rights Society 3,000 -
The Poetry Trust (formerly The Aldeburgh Poetry Trust) 2,000 2,000
The Porch 6,000 5,000
Practical Action (Intermediate Technology Development Group Ltd) 20,000 15,000
Prison Advice and Care Trust 2,000 -
Prisoners' Education Trust 3,000 2,000
Rainbow Centre for Children 2,000 -
Rebuilding Sri Lanka 40,000 -
Rochdale Special Needs Cycling Club 1,000 -
The Royal Commonwealth Society for the Blind - 2,000
The Royal National Lifeboat Institution 3,000 -
The Royal National Institute for the Blind 3,000 9,500
The Samaritans 5,000 2,000
The Save the Children Fund 3,000 2,000
Shelter, National Campaign for Homeless People Limited 11,000 6,000
Simon Wiesenthal Centre 2,000 2,000
The Smile Train 5,000 -
Sobell House Hospice Charity 3,000 -
St Aloysius Appeal 20,000 8,000
St Hilda's College Oxford 5,000 -
St Peter's Church, Eynsham - 20,000
The Story Museum 2,000 1,000
Survive - Miva 3,000 2,000
Sustrans 3,000 -
Swansea Russian Ballet 7,500 5,500
The Tablet Trust 6,000 5,000
Talking Newspaper Association of the UK (TNAUK) 3,000 2,000
The Thomley Hall Centre Limited 6,000 5,000
Trefnu Cymunedol Cymru 10,000 5,000
Trinity College Oxford 5,000 -
Trust for Research and Education on the Arms Trade 6,000 4,000
Ty Hafan Children's Hospice 12,500 10,000
The UK Working Group on Landmines - 6,000
United Christian Broadcasters Ltd 2,000 1,000
The United Kingdom Committee for UNICEF 25,000 10,000
University of Oxford Botanic Garden and Harcourt Arboretum 7,000 -
University of Oxford Refugee Study Centre 3,000 1,000
University of Manitoba (Alan Klass Memorial Fund) 20,000 20,000
WaterAid 20,000 15,000
West London Churches Homeless Concern 6,000 4,000
The Who Cares? Trust 2,500 -
Womankind Worldwide 10,000 10,000
The Woodland Trust 15,000 10,500
World Cancer Research Fund 6,000 2,000
WWF - Canada 5,000 5,000
WWF - UK 10,000 10,000

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Thanks for that link, davem. I think the interview explains a great deal about the reasoning the Estate might have in being so mulishly opposed to third-party uses of Tolkien's work. Yes, there are probably instances in which permission to use the character names and likenesses could be harmlessly granted, .

The estate doesn't own the names though - they are all TMs of the Saul Zaentz company, As for things like the pub names... there are 2 pub restaurants locally with Hobbit in the title. One has had no trouble the one that has had trouble was due to them selling merchandise with the names on and was resolved by paying a very modest licencing fee.

I have had a quick look at the original and it is quite interesting to read the comments of the French readers.