Should Gondor have given Calenardhon to the Dunlendings? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elmo · 11-08-2011, 12:04 PM

The Dunlendings like any men weren't inherently evil. They in fact only turned over to the evil side because they were done out of the fertile lands of Calenardhon by the Rohirrim. If Calenardhon was so under-populated that Cirion could give the whole province up like he did to Eorl surely it would have been in Gondor's interest to give the land to a more nearby people than the far off Éothéod.

When offering the land they could have made the Dunlending swear an oath of eternal alliance etc. By giving them the land they would have gained the friendship of the Dunlendings and so gain a handy bulwark in their northern frontier. And maybe all the Balchoth mischief wouldn't have been so bad.

Inziladun · 11-08-2011, 12:48 PM

Neither the Stewards nor the Gondorian citizenry would have thought that was a good idea.

The Dunlendings had a history of being unfriendly toward the Númenóreans, and the
fact that they were related to the Dead Men of Dunharrow, who had been cursed by Isildur as oath-breakers, probably didn't do them any favors in Cirion's eyes.

Additionally, the Éothéod had proven their friendship with Gondor by aiding them in battle and were much more numerous than the Dunlendings. Having the former closer to Gondor would have been much more attractive than taking a chance with the men of Dunland.

Andsigil · 11-08-2011, 03:13 PM

I echo Inziladun's thoughts.

Besides, as Brennus told the Romans when he sacked Rome, vae victis.

Selmo · 11-09-2011, 03:43 AM

Should Gondor have given Calenardhon to the Dunlendings?

Yes, they should, but they didn't. The idea would never enter their minds.

Gondor would not see the Dunlendings as either a threat or as an asset.
Like any other self-respecting Master Race, the Gondorians would view sub-humans (i.e. anyone not of Numenorean decent) as of no account and not worthy of any considerstion.

The relationship between Gondor and the Rohirrim was different. Those Northerners had saved Gondor and, although they were not Numenorean, it could be said that they might have ancestors who had be elf-friends in The First Age, and, therefore, almost as superior as Gondorians.
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Findegil · 11-09-2011, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Those Northerners had saved Gondor and, although they were not Numenorean, it could be said that they might have ancestors who had be elf-friends in The First Age, and, therefore, almost as superior as Gondorians.

But the same is true for the Dunlandings, even so the Gondorians did not recognise it because they spoke a langued that was related to that of folk of Berthil in First Age.

Respectfuly
Findegil

Selmo · 11-09-2011, 11:04 AM

It would not matter to the Gondorians whether the Dunlendings and the Rohirrim were related or not, so long as they could persuade themselves that the useful group were almost their equals and the other group were not.

Truth and racism are rarely connected.
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11-08-2011, 12:04 PM	#1
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	Should Gondor have given Calenardhon to the Dunlendings? The Dunlendings like any men weren't inherently evil. They in fact only turned over to the evil side because they were done out of the fertile lands of Calenardhon by the Rohirrim. If Calenardhon was so under-populated that Cirion could give the whole province up like he did to Eorl surely it would have been in Gondor's interest to give the land to a more nearby people than the far off Éothéod. When offering the land they could have made the Dunlending swear an oath of eternal alliance etc. By giving them the land they would have gained the friendship of the Dunlendings and so gain a handy bulwark in their northern frontier. And maybe all the Balchoth mischief wouldn't have been so bad. __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering. Last edited by Elmo; 11-09-2011 at 04:55 AM.

11-08-2011, 12:48 PM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,037	Neither the Stewards nor the Gondorian citizenry would have thought that was a good idea. The Dunlendings had a history of being unfriendly toward the Númenóreans, and the fact that they were related to the Dead Men of Dunharrow, who had been cursed by Isildur as oath-breakers, probably didn't do them any favors in Cirion's eyes. Additionally, the Éothéod had proven their friendship with Gondor by aiding them in battle and were much more numerous than the Dunlendings. Having the former closer to Gondor would have been much more attractive than taking a chance with the men of Dunland. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

11-08-2011, 03:13 PM	#3
Andsigil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin Posts: 733	I echo Inziladun's thoughts. Besides, as Brennus told the Romans when he sacked Rome, vae victis. __________________ Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness.

11-09-2011, 03:43 AM	#4
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	Should Gondor have given Calenardhon to the Dunlendings? Yes, they should, but they didn't. The idea would never enter their minds. Gondor would not see the Dunlendings as either a threat or as an asset. Like any other self-respecting Master Race, the Gondorians would view sub-humans (i.e. anyone not of Numenorean decent) as of no account and not worthy of any considerstion. The relationship between Gondor and the Rohirrim was different. Those Northerners had saved Gondor and, although they were not Numenorean, it could be said that they might have ancestors who had be elf-friends in The First Age, and, therefore, almost as superior as Gondorians. .

11-09-2011, 11:04 AM	#6
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	It would not matter to the Gondorians whether the Dunlendings and the Rohirrim were related or not, so long as they could persuade themselves that the useful group were almost their equals and the other group were not. Truth and racism are rarely connected. .