Wood Elves - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

xMellrynxMaidenx · 12-22-2010, 02:41 PM

I am unsure if there is already a thread like this created, and if so please forgive me for creating another, but something has been bugging the ever living out of me since I watched those movies.

Frodo, when both he and Sam are resting, tells Sam that the wood elves are near. The two of them in all their hobbitsh excitement go and watch them pass through. Frodo tells Sam they are passing over the Sea into the Undying Lands and Sam says it make him sad and all that jazz.

The only "wood elves" that I ever remember Frodo and Sam meeting in the Shire was Gildor Inglorion and his company of elves.

My question is: Are the elves Frodo and Sam see Gildor and his company?

I mean, given the number of them, they DO make a company, but Gildor told Frodo in the books...

Quote:

"We are Exiles, and most of our kindred have long departed and we too are only tarrying here a while, ere we return over the Great Sea."

It's possible I guess that it was Gildor and his company departing, (PJ and what he likes to call "adding his own touch") but he and Frodo met again in the same spot, when Gildor was traveling to the Undying Lands with Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel.

So...if the "wood elves" wasn't Gildor and his company, then who were they? I suppose they could be elves from Lothlorien or Mirkwood (Since they ARE Silvan elves) traveling to the Grey Havens. (kind of already answered my own question, didn't I?

)

It was just something that was bugging me, really. What do you guys think?

Galin · 12-22-2010, 03:49 PM

Well, as it's for the movie they can be generic silvan elves to illustrate that Elves are passing West and leaving Middle-earth.

In the book (at this point) Frodo speaks of Elves wandering into the Shire, and Gildor and company turn out to be High Elves (meaning 'Eldar' here it seems), and specifically Exiled Noldor.

Galadriel55 · 12-22-2010, 03:56 PM

I'm not really sure PJ unrerstood the difference between Silvan elves and High Elves, so that would explain a lot.

It's just one flaw of the movies out of a hundred.

Galin · 12-22-2010, 04:04 PM

I'm not a Jackson fan myself, but I don't see this particular scene as a flaw actually. In my opinion these Elves don't need to be High Elves to make the simple point.

Jackson did cut this scene for theatrical release in any case.

Galadriel55 · 12-22-2010, 04:16 PM

true, that.maybe PJ just wanted to shorten the story a bit, but add a dramatic line. Well, it worked.

Galadriel · 01-10-2011, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galin

I'm not a Jackson fan myself, but I don't see this particular scene as a flaw actually. In my opinion these Elves don't need to be High Elves to make the simple point.

Jackson did cut this scene for theatrical release in any case.

Strange though, that he simply couldn't say 'High Elves'. Probably the audience would never understand

Galadriel · 01-10-2011, 08:25 AM

Huh? Gildor is a Wood elf? I think I remember Frodo saying, "They spoke the name of Elbereth! These are High Elves!" in the books.

What's more, the name 'Inglorion' indicates he is of the House of Finrod. Also, Gildor mentions this himself. In that case, he is definitely not a Wood elf; he is a Noldo/Vanya.

Edit: Oh wait, I think you're talking about the possibilities in the movie. Well, in that case they're probably from Lothlórien

xMellrynxMaidenx · 01-10-2011, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Edit: Oh wait, I think you're talking about the possibilities in the movie. Well, in that case they're probably from Lothlórien

Haha I was

Because truly I don't think it would matter to PJ if they were High Elves, Wood Elves, Blue Elves, Purple Elves...etc (okay so I was being silly with the last few

)

We know Gildor was a High Elf, PJ could have been unaware of that fact. I didn't give this question a whole lot of thought at the time, but after I had posted it, only then did it become so blaringly obvious to me.

Galadriel · 01-11-2011, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xMellrynxMaidenx

We know Gildor was a High Elf, PJ could have been unaware of that fact. I didn't give this question a whole lot of thought at the time, but after I had posted it, only then did it become so blaringly obvious to me.

No, I don't think he overlooked it. For someone who knows LotR so thoroughly, it shouldn't slip his mind. I still hold that the audience would not know what High Elves would be, and therefore Wood elves was an easier alternative.

xMellrynxMaidenx · 01-11-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel

No, I don't think he overlooked it. For someone who knows LotR so thoroughly, it shouldn't slip his mind. I still hold that the audience would not know what High Elves would be, and therefore Wood elves was an easier alternative.

Just goes to show you what I know about PJ.

But yes, I see where you're coming from with this. If I had not read the Lord of the Rings or any of Tolkien's work that pertains to ME, really, I wouldn't have known who the High Elves were or what their significance was.

Blind Guardian · 01-11-2011, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xMellrynxMaidenx

Just goes to show you what I know about PJ.

But yes, I see where you're coming from with this. If I had not read the Lord of the Rings or any of Tolkien's work that pertains to ME, really, I wouldn't have known who the High Elves were or what their significance was.

Wait, there's High Elves? I thought that came from Sacred 2!

Galin · 01-10-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel

(...) What's more, the name 'Inglorion' indicates he is of the House of Finrod. Also, Gildor mentions this himself.

Inglorion doesn't necessarily indicate this however, though Gildor's mention does, that's true.

Pedantic of me I know

Galadriel · 01-11-2011, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galin

Inglorion doesn't necessarily indicate this however, though Gildor's mention does, that's true.

Pedantic of me I know

I know it's not necessary, but since Gildor says it, to me it does become (almost) necessary. The main problem was that Tolkien changed his mind every week and twice on Sundays.

Galin · 01-11-2011, 06:50 AM

I meant Gildor 'Inglorion' by itself doesn't necessar-ily show that Gildor was of the House of Finrod. So in a sense it was 'necessary' for him to state 'House of Finrod', otherwise the reader wouldn't know.

Gildor and Company arguably have nothing to do with this scene, just as Glorfindel has nothing to do with Arwen showing up at the ford. Are these things in line with the books? Obviously not, but the filmmakers don't really attempt to illustrate the Gildor encounter, which obviously is much more involved that just seeing the Elves pass by.

narfforc · 01-12-2011, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Huh? Gildor is a Wood elf? I think I remember Frodo saying, "They spoke the name of Elbereth! These are High Elves!" in the books.

What's more, the name 'Inglorion' indicates he is of the House of Finrod.

I remember reading in HoME that Finrod replaced Inglor as the name of a son of Finarfin, doesn't Inglorion translate as Son of Inglor/Finrod in that case it is another of Tolkien's slight errors, as Finrod didn't have any children. Part of Finrod's Quenya name is Ingoldo, anyone have any answers?

Lotrelf · 04-26-2014, 08:53 PM

Elves were leaving Middle-Earth those days . I think PJ showed random "Wood Elves" leaving ME; it did not have to be Gildor & co; just few Elves leaving the world. This was important in the book too, and was added in the movie. So it's really not a problem unless I'm missing something.

12-22-2010, 03:56 PM	#3
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,411	I'm not really sure PJ unrerstood the difference between Silvan elves and High Elves, so that would explain a lot. It's just one flaw of the movies out of a hundred. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

12-22-2010, 04:16 PM	#5
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,411	true, that.maybe PJ just wanted to shorten the story a bit, but add a dramatic line. Well, it worked. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

01-10-2011, 08:25 AM	#7
Galadriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: In Eldamar beside the walls of Elven Tirion Posts: 551	Huh? Gildor is a Wood elf? I think I remember Frodo saying, "They spoke the name of Elbereth! These are High Elves!" in the books. What's more, the name 'Inglorion' indicates he is of the House of Finrod. Also, Gildor mentions this himself. In that case, he is definitely not a Wood elf; he is a Noldo/Vanya. Edit: Oh wait, I think you're talking about the possibilities in the movie. Well, in that case they're probably from Lothlórien __________________ "Hey! Come derry dol! Can you hear me singing?" – Tom Bombadil Last edited by Galadriel; 01-10-2011 at 08:29 AM.

01-11-2011, 06:50 AM	#14
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,034	I meant Gildor 'Inglorion' by itself doesn't necessar-ily show that Gildor was of the House of Finrod. So in a sense it was 'necessary' for him to state 'House of Finrod', otherwise the reader wouldn't know. Gildor and Company arguably have nothing to do with this scene, just as Glorfindel has nothing to do with Arwen showing up at the ford. Are these things in line with the books? Obviously not, but the filmmakers don't really attempt to illustrate the Gildor encounter, which obviously is much more involved that just seeing the Elves pass by. Last edited by Galin; 01-11-2011 at 12:00 PM.

04-26-2014, 08:53 PM	#16
Lotrelf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 265	Elves were leaving Middle-Earth those days . I think PJ showed random "Wood Elves" leaving ME; it did not have to be Gildor & co; just few Elves leaving the world. This was important in the book too, and was added in the movie. So it's really not a problem unless I'm missing something. __________________ A short saying oft contains much wisdom. ~Sophocles

12-22-2010, 03:49 PM	#2
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,034	Well, as it's for the movie they can be generic silvan elves to illustrate that Elves are passing West and leaving Middle-earth. In the book (at this point) Frodo speaks of Elves wandering into the Shire, and Gildor and company turn out to be High Elves (meaning 'Eldar' here it seems), and specifically Exiled Noldor.

12-22-2010, 04:04 PM	#4
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,034	I'm not a Jackson fan myself, but I don't see this particular scene as a flaw actually. In my opinion these Elves don't need to be High Elves to make the simple point. Jackson did cut this scene for theatrical release in any case.