Lúthien and Melian - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-22-2003, 05:13 AM

I know Elwë died as a result of greed between him and the Dwarves, but I am not sure of the rest of the 'family'.

Can anyone tell me what happened to Melian after the Ruin of Doraith, and what happended to Lúthien after the War of Wrath.

Did they both sail to Aman? and if Lúthien did, did Beren go aswell?

Curiousity, it seems has got the better on me.....

littlemanpoet · 01-22-2003, 05:38 AM

I ought to tell you
to read the Silmarillion
but I can't resist, so
as for Melian,
she returned to Aman;
but when Beren died,
Luthien stayed at his side
and sang to Mandos,
pleading. He, hearing,
his heart swayed this once,
gave Beren back his life
and Luthien chose human life
and they lived and bore Dior
and died. Their love remains.

Ultimatejoe · 01-22-2003, 05:46 AM

Beren died first in hunting for Charcaroth, who had swallowed the Silmaril, to fufull his quest. Luthien tells him to wait in Mandos for her (he was pretty whipped I guess) which he does. She "passes" to Aman and pleads with Mandos the immovable, he relents, and they are both returned to Beleriand as Mortals and reside on Tol Galen until they again die around 504 of the first age and their spirits depart from Arda entirely.

Inderjit Sanghera · 01-22-2003, 06:51 AM

Yes, but I don't think we have J.R.R's view on what happened to Melian after the slaying of Elwe. Luthien, chose mortality and passed beyond the circles of the world, presumably to sell ladies underwear.

Ultimatejoe · 01-22-2003, 07:04 AM

She eventually returned to Valinor as far as I know.

Lalaith · 01-22-2003, 07:33 AM

Yes. According to the Silmarillion she returned to Valinor from whence she came, "to muse on her sorrows in the gardens of Lorien."

Voronwe · 01-22-2003, 07:47 AM

That part of the Silmarillion was written by Christopher Tolkein and Guy Kay, and thus does not represent JRRT's view on the subject. There may, perhaps, be a reference to Melian's return to Valinor in earlier writings by Tolkien, though I do not know of any.

Ultimatejoe · 01-22-2003, 07:52 AM

Voronwe, the chapter of the Silmarillion in question may have been 'written' by Christopher Tolkien and Guy Kay, but it was based on the "Nauglafring" chapters of the Book of Lost Tales, where Melian DOES depart to Valinor after the death of Beren and Luthien.

Legolas · 01-22-2003, 07:59 AM

Wouldn't you rather read it?

01-22-2003, 05:13 AM	#1
Dain B.C Guest Posts: n/a	Lúthien and Melian I know Elwë died as a result of greed between him and the Dwarves, but I am not sure of the rest of the 'family'. Can anyone tell me what happened to Melian after the Ruin of Doraith, and what happended to Lúthien after the War of Wrath. Did they both sail to Aman? and if Lúthien did, did Beren go aswell? Curiousity, it seems has got the better on me.....

01-22-2003, 05:46 AM	#3
Ultimatejoe Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Trent University, Peterborough, Ontario Posts: 125	Beren died first in hunting for Charcaroth, who had swallowed the Silmaril, to fufull his quest. Luthien tells him to wait in Mandos for her (he was pretty whipped I guess) which he does. She "passes" to Aman and pleads with Mandos the immovable, he relents, and they are both returned to Beleriand as Mortals and reside on Tol Galen until they again die around 504 of the first age and their spirits depart from Arda entirely. __________________ Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory. -Leonardo Da Vinci

01-22-2003, 06:51 AM	#4
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	Yes, but I don't think we have J.R.R's view on what happened to Melian after the slaying of Elwe. Luthien, chose mortality and passed beyond the circles of the world, presumably to sell ladies underwear. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

01-22-2003, 07:04 AM	#5
Ultimatejoe Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Trent University, Peterborough, Ontario Posts: 125	She eventually returned to Valinor as far as I know. __________________ Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory. -Leonardo Da Vinci

01-22-2003, 07:33 AM	#6
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Yes. According to the Silmarillion she returned to Valinor from whence she came, "to muse on her sorrows in the gardens of Lorien." __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

01-22-2003, 05:38 AM	#2
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	I ought to tell you to read the Silmarillion but I can't resist, so as for Melian, she returned to Aman; but when Beren died, Luthien stayed at his side and sang to Mandos, pleading. He, hearing, his heart swayed this once, gave Beren back his life and Luthien chose human life and they lived and bore Dior and died. Their love remains.

01-22-2003, 07:47 AM	#7
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	That part of the Silmarillion was written by Christopher Tolkein and Guy Kay, and thus does not represent JRRT's view on the subject. There may, perhaps, be a reference to Melian's return to Valinor in earlier writings by Tolkien, though I do not know of any. __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

01-22-2003, 07:52 AM	#8
Ultimatejoe Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Trent University, Peterborough, Ontario Posts: 125	Voronwe, the chapter of the Silmarillion in question may have been 'written' by Christopher Tolkien and Guy Kay, but it was based on the "Nauglafring" chapters of the Book of Lost Tales, where Melian DOES depart to Valinor after the death of Beren and Luthien. __________________ Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory. -Leonardo Da Vinci

01-22-2003, 07:59 AM	#9
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Wouldn't you rather read it? __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.