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10-06-2009, 11:42 AM | #1 |
Haunting Spirit
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Nature/Cause of the weariness of Eldar in the Third Age
Did Tolkien ever write anything about what the cause was of the weariness the High Elves felt during the Third Age? Given the thousands of years of their struggles against evil in the First and Second Ages I can see no obvious reason why they would suddenly not care for matters of the world in the TA. Obviously few of them would have fought the long fight during all that time (most fo hte Eldar would have perisehd in the many wars and battles) meaning that even the "young" Eldar, those born in the TA, were also affected by the weariness. Is the weariness somehow caused by Sauron with the intent of ridding himself of his most powerful enemy race? Did the creation of the Rings of Power (most made with his assistance) initiate the weariness?
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JeffF(Fingolfin) |
10-06-2009, 01:50 PM | #2 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
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Just to throw in my two cents, personally I think it has lot to do with something like an anticipation of the Age of Men to come. And it was clear that some big change is coming to Middle-Earth - Galadriel, or who was it (though I get the feeling that basically every Elf in LotR said something like that), summed it up quite well - either Sauron wins, which means the end for the Elves in Middle-Earth, or he is defeated, which means the end for the Elves in Middle-Earth. Because it means the end of the Rings and the start of the dominion of Men, if nothing else. Some seemingly believed, or would like to believe, that the Three might continue their work after they are freed from the One's rule, but the Wise - like Galadriel, as she says - apparently believed otherwise, and of course, correctly.
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10-06-2009, 02:37 PM | #3 |
Wight of the Old Forest
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As our dear sally would phrase it: What he said (Legate, I mean). But to elaborate a little, I think the fading of the Elves before the coming dominion of Men started long before the Third Age and the War of the Ring. Already at the turn from the First to the Second Age, the Eldarin population of Middle-earth had diminished considerably due to the War of the Jewels and the subsequent exodus to Tol Eressea; during the Second Age, we see them more and more confined to a couple of isolated realms (Lindon, Eregion, Lórien, Greenwood the Great - this tendency continues into the Third Age, of course), while Men multiplied much faster and spread over the vast areas inbetween.
In this context, the forging of the Rings of Power could be seen as a last attempt by the Elves to hold their own - to restore or preserve the world as they had known and loved it, if only in a few protected places. When that attempt backfired bigtime, what else was left to them but resignation? Realizing that their desire to resist the change had rendered them vulnerable to manipulation by the Enemy probably didn't help, either.
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
10-06-2009, 02:42 PM | #4 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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Talking about the "weariness" itself... the weltschmertz or the angst...
Well, blaming Sauron for it looks to me a bit too simple an answer - and not honouring the elves their due. Like, "I'm getting done with your rule in the ME, now start feeling bad and show some common resignation"... Looking at Tolkien's work one should probably look farther and on a larger scale. What I have always thought being the reason for the "annui" has been just the fact that they have lived so long, being involved for so long, seen so much... seen so many a thing recurring, repeating itself. Every child - or a childish person - wants to live forever but when one gets even a glimpse of what eternity might actually mean one grows up and sees the freedom and meaningfulness of living a limited mortal life. To me that has just been the realisation of the elves... they have grown up, they have realised that another millenia, and another, and another... will be just the same with some minor variations and the struggle between good and bad etc. will go on whatever they do... And isn't that one of the recurring themes of our mythologies and popular cultures: how immortals envy those who can just live and die? That might be just my perspective but I think one could actually argue for it, at least better than for Sauron and the fear of losing control...
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
10-06-2009, 03:04 PM | #5 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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I've always thought the 'fading' of the Elves in Middle-earth was connected to their inherent difference from the land itself. They were immortal creatures living in a mortal world, and eventually had to make way for the mortal Men who were its masters.
It seems to be a mirror effect of that which the Blessed Realm would have on mortals, as explained to the Númenóreans by the Eldar: Quote:
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10-06-2009, 03:19 PM | #6 |
Haunting Spirit
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Elvish numbers fairly large at end of SA
Tolkien wrote in the Silmarillion about the host of the Last Alliance of Men and Elves when it gathered at Imladris (Rivendell) that, "none greater has been mustered (in Middle Earth) since the host of the Valar went against Thangorodrim." Given that the kingdom of Arnor was only around a hundred years old the Eldar must have numbered a fairly large part of that host (which was smaller than the army that actually fought at Dagorlad since the Silvan Elves and the Army of Gondor joined it after the gathering at Imladris). I grant that most of these troops at Imladris must have been men, Tolkien writes that he Eldar dwelt most in the lands beyond the Ered Luin, in the Havens and in Imladris implying that most of the lands of Arnor must have been occupied by men under Gil-Galad's rule (prior to him ceding these lands and people to Elendil).
In reading the Peoples of Middle Earth book I agree that the Eldar were diminishing but it seems that Tolkien meant mostly in stature (he calls the Noldor Gnomes in Peoples of Middle Earth) making statements implying they were shorter than their ancestors. The affect of the "weariness" seems to be limited to the Eldar, the Silvan Elves seem to be much as they have always been, preferring to keep to themselves and only intervening during the in a limited fashion in the war on Sauron, their hosts in the Last Alliance being the last time they march on the Dark Lord. The Avari also seem immune to the "weariness" though of course they are almost a non-entity as far as the history of Middle Earth goes.
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JeffF(Fingolfin) |
10-06-2009, 03:49 PM | #7 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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Quote:
I don't have the books handy, but didn't Legolas make a comment to Gimli along the lines of 'The kingdoms of men will outlast us'? Maybe he realised that one day he too would be subject to the fading.
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10-06-2009, 04:26 PM | #8 |
Haunting Spirit
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Legolas Silvan by culture Sindarin by ancestry
According to Unfinished Tales in the chapter about Galadriesl and Celeborn, Thranduil, Legolas' father, was a Sindarin Elf who ruled over Silvan elves. Both the Sindar and the Noldor seem to have been affected by weariness.
All elves seem to have been affected by the sea longing that Legolas experienced. Perhaps this is the explanation of the abandonment of Lorien though it is nowhere states specifically where the Silvan elves went.
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JeffF(Fingolfin) |
10-07-2009, 11:26 AM | #9 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
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Quote:
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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10-07-2009, 02:11 PM | #10 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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Actually I think my thought will combine with Boro's (and yours Legate) quite neatly. And thank's Boro for adding something I had totally ignored as I thought of the question just from this human perspective we people tend to have...
So this ME is a place of transient things, ever-recurring conditions and choices, forwards and backwards... always incomplete. From an immortal perspective it should be frustrating indeed. That's why those elves dwelling in the West had no such problems, living in the platonic world of perfectness as they were. And because of that gap between men and the elves we men can never really understand the bliss of an ever-unchanging world the elves might long for - and therefore the only meaning given to us humans is, like Gandalf says "deciding what to do with the time that is given to us".
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
10-07-2009, 02:30 PM | #11 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
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Quote:
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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10-07-2009, 02:58 PM | #12 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Quote:
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