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Fordim Hedgethistle What was Frodo's temptation 08-11-2009, 10:54 AM
Inziladun Frodo said things on at least... 08-11-2009, 11:04 AM
Fordim Hedgethistle That's always been my... 08-11-2009, 12:55 PM
Inziladun Perhaps when Frodo says he... 08-11-2009, 01:27 PM
narfforc What promise did it give... 08-11-2009, 02:26 PM
Inziladun It seems he was just... 08-11-2009, 03:19 PM
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08-11-2009, 10:54 AM | #1 |
Gibbering Gibbet
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Beyond cloud nine
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What was Frodo's temptation
Ok, here's a quesion which I've been thinking about for a long time, both in the privacy of my own dark imagination and more openly here on the Downs (and sometimes amongst very forgiving friends over a pint or three):
What did the Ring promise Frodo that made him finally 'give in' and claim it for his own? In every other case where we see someone taken by the Ring or tempted by it we are given some indication of the lies being whispered to them by the Ring. Off the top of my head I can think of (being too lazy to look up all the references and trusting to someone with more energy to do it for me if it becomes necessary or useful): 1) Gandalf saying that he would take the Ring from a desire to relieve suffering 2) Gollum is promised "fissh" all day long and sitting on a throne and being The Gollum 3) Boromir wants to be a Captain and defeat Mordor 4) Sam has wild visions of himself as a gardener healing Mordor and turning it green 5) Galadriel wants to be a queen and rule/preserve Lorien forever and unchanging But we don't get anything like this for Frodo. All we get from him about the Ring is the vision of a wheel of fire with a great Eye in it...hardly a tempting proposition for him I would think. And as he nears Mount Doom the visions of the good things he loves (the Shire) fade rather than grow (it would make sense to me that the obvious lie the Ring would tell him would be that by claiming the Ring he will save the Shire from corruption and stain forever). So what are we to make of this apparent blank in the narrative? Why has the author left it out?
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08-11-2009, 11:04 AM | #2 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Frodo said things on at least a couple of occasions that might have given hints as to his desires.
Quote:
Quote:
Perhaps the Ring finally convinced him that the only way to ensure the Shire would survive was for Frodo to claim it and return there.
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08-11-2009, 12:55 PM | #3 |
Gibbering Gibbet
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That's always been my instinctive thought but it doesn't really resolve the problem of why we are forced to assume that in the first place. Wouldn't it make a heck of a lot more sense if the author were to come out and tell us something along those lines? Or even for Frodo to announce that as his desire in some way? But instead we have his assertion that he can no longer remember the Shire...if the Ring were whispering away to him about saving the place, wouldn't it be presenting him with visions of the Shire just as it presented visions of a flowering Mordor to Sam, fishes to Gollum and of victory to Boromir?
And those quotes you give lead to another interesting point: given that Frodo's desire is to save the Shire and that he knows the only way to do it is to throw the Ring away, would that even be the tactic 'chosen' by the Ring? The Ring works by promising what its power can give (satisfaction of selfish desire; providing something that the bearer wants for him or herself) but since Frodo's motivation is selfless perhaps the Ring had nothing to 'work' on. In which case, how was it able to triumph over Frodo in the end? Was Frodo coerced or forced by the Ring in a way qualitatively different than what happened to others, who were perhaps more seduced rather than 'forced'? (If Frodo was indeed forced at all...it's just a thought.)
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08-11-2009, 01:27 PM | #4 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
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Quote:
Quote:
Wasn't Sam's motivation selfless also? To save the Ring from capture and continue on with the mission?
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08-11-2009, 02:26 PM | #5 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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What promise did it give Isildur?
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08-11-2009, 03:19 PM | #6 |
Gruesome Spectre
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It seems he was just 'generically' tempted by its beauty at first, then had the idea he would keep it as an heirloom of his House. What could it promise him? He was already a king and had just (apparently) defeated Sauron forever.
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08-11-2009, 03:29 PM | #7 |
Wight of the Old Forest
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What about: the power to rebuild the glory of Númenor, unsullied by its Fall, in Middle-earth?
In Fordim's examples for the desires fed by the Ring, the common motive seems to me
Where does this take us regarding Frodo? I once sketched an experimental scenario in this post (last paragraph, skip all the philosophical ramble), but that was more playful than serious, I think we have to dig deeper. Anyway, Fordim, thanks for starting this thread! It was high time.
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08-12-2009, 12:48 PM | #8 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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It's weregild. Isildur took it as payment for the loss of his father, brother, and Numenor.
So any promises along the lines of restoring those losses would have been very well-taken, though you'd have to be pretty deluded to think you could raise the dead, Ring or no.
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