The Balrog

[JeffF.]

It does not appear that the Balrog was in Sauron's service during the War of the Ring nor does it appear to be that he ruled over the Orcs and Cave-trolls within Moria. These inhabitants are in several places described as Servants of Sauron but they were obviously intimidated by the Balrog whenever he chose to appear. This is reinforced in the RotK Appendices in Durin's Folk the orc Azog commanded the orc army out of Moria that fought the final battle of the War of Orcs and Dwarves, though the Balrog was a spectator at the Gate and was seen by Dain it did not participate not even as a commander.

Perhaps one reason is that the Balrog could not be trusted in that if it found the One Ring he would undoubtedly use it to become a new Dark Lord rather than return it to Sauron. Despite all this the Balrog could have been militarily useful to Sauron. Sauron's forces in Dol Guldor with those of Moria seemed to be intended to tie down the Elven forces of Lothlorien (Galadriel & Celeborn) and Greenwood (Thranduil). In modern terms they were an 'economy of force' army. I say this because they were repulsed three times from Lorien and decisively beaten by Thranduil so obviously lacked the power to overcome either Silvan Elf Army. The objective of the Dol Guldor / Moria orcs was probably to prevent the Woodmen and Thranduil's Elves from assisting the Men of Dale and Dwarves of Erebor in their defense against the Easterling invasion and to do this they would have to attack both Silvan Elf realms otherwise the un-engaged Elves would attack the rear. The Balrog could have been of great assistance in this mission. It was said that Lothlorien had the power to resist any enemy unless Sauron himself should come there so perhaps even the Balrog could not overcome Galadriel but it is likely that it would have been decisive against Thranduil's elves who were not protected by any similar power to Galadriel's. Had the 'main effort' of the Dol Guldor force been sent under the Balrog against Thranduil they likely would have routed the elves and if joined to the Easterlings perhaps even would have overthrown the Dwarf defenses of Erebor. If this success was achieved at the cost of the orc army sent against Lothlorien being destroyed it would have been well worth it if the entire North were conquered.

The Balrog seemed very similar in power to the Lord of the Nazgul and could have been served as a second great captain for the Dark Lord. It's 'historical' demise also brought down Gandalf the Grey and would seem to have been a good exchange since it eliminated the most powerful being fighting for the Free Peoples but in retrospect since Gandalf was resurrected in a more powerful state than before the death of the Balrog was not worth its loss.

[Eönwë]

What's to say that the Balrog would go under Sauron's command?

[Pitchwife]

I don't think it would. The two of them probably were of roughly equal rank in the good old days under Morgoth, so the Balrog would very likely have regarded any attempt on Sauron's side to command it as presumptuous. They might have made an alliance, but the Balrog seems to have been remarkably disinterested in the affairs of the wider world - after all, it spent all those centuries since the Dwarves woke it up doing little more than sitting on its... er... hands in Moria. It's almost like it had decided to retire and only wanted to be left alone. (It only went after the Fellowship after Pippin's foolish stone had disturbed it in its peace in the deeps. Makes me wonder whether our dear Fool of a Took managed to accidentally hit Durin's Bane on the head...)

On the other hand, maybe not. Why did the Watcher in the Water grab Frodo, of all the Fellowship? Did it just feel some attraction from the Ring, or was it under orders - and if so, whose? Sauron's (who was far away) or the Balrog's (who lived next door, so to speak)? Maybe the Balrog, rather than twiddling its w... er... thumbs for centuries, had been busy all that time recruiting an army of Nameless Things at the roots of the world and was just waiting for the right moment to come out of hiding and Take Over the World - in which case it would have found the Ring quite handy (and what a chance to thumb its nose at its old colleague!). Lots of room for speculation, but little more.

As for Sauron, do we know whether he even was aware of the Balrog?

Finally, I'm not so sure about the Moria orcs serving Sauron in the sense of being under his direct command. Those who took part in the attack on the Fellowship at Parth Galen apparently only followed their own agenda (LotR Book III, The Uruk-Hai):

'We have come all the way from the Mines to kill, and avenge our folk. I wish to kill, and then go back north.'

That doesn't sound like they had any special orders concerning rings or halflings, and neither Uglúk nor Grishnákh seems to have thought them very reliable.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

The two of them probably were of roughly equal rank in the good old days under Morgoth,

I'm not so sure that the were of equal rank. Remember Sauron was Morgoth's Chief leutenant and (in his alternate idenity of Gorthmar) one of his most Sucessful generals. That likey put him rank-wise, on par with Gothmog (the Head Balrog, not the Nazgul) if not slightly higher. Durin's Bane isn't Gothmog, he/she/its is one of the lesser Balrogs. While you can speculate on how much differece there is in strength between an ordinary Balrog and Gothmog (a bit like speculating on how much stronger the WK is than an ordinary Nazgul) rank wise (from Morgoths army's standpoint) , Durin's Bane is likey far lower than Sauron.

Two other point, however come to mind which lean in favor of Sauron not being able to cow the Balrog if he so chose. One is the fact that, in terms of raw physical power Third age Sauron is probably much weaker than first age Sauron; he's lost so much in his continual defeat and returns. The Balrog on the other hand is probably roughly as strong as it was whne it first went under the mountain, if not as strong as it was in it's prime (it's had a long time to sleep and recover) Second Third age Sauron really doesn't move much (he goes from Dol Guldur to Barad Dur, but its not like we have a record of him doing anything on the trip so its more like a King or Emperor moving from his summer to his winter palace. All actual pysical "work" Sauron does is done through his servants and agents, like the Nazgul, who while capable do not, in an singe one of them (even the witch king) have the whole of thier masters power (if they did he could only have one of them by defintion) What I'm trying to get at is, if Sauron knew about the balrog and wanted to enslave it, it would probably require him to go to Moria in person and even then it might not be enough.

[Kuruharan]

Sauron might have been rather embarrassed in front of the balrog for a couple of reasons. The first is Sauron's failure and then desertion of Morgoth's cause in the First Age. The second is how much weaker Third Age Sauron had become. Thirdy, there was that business about Sauron claiming in the Third Age to be Melkor returned...which obviously wouldn't have taken the balrog in for a moment and might have made it rather angry.

The relationship between them may have been rather similar to that of Sauron and Shelob in a way. They were aware of each other but left each other alone...barring the occasional snack. The balrog does seem in a way to be working with the orcs to some extent and was certainly aware of the things they were up to...but he also seems more than a little disinterested in them. He didn't stir a finger to save them in the Battle of Azanulbizar but had the dwarves tried to enter Moria it probably would have been a very different story. To keep them out was probably the only reason he bothered to be at the gate at all that day.

I agree that he largely wanted to be left alone.

[Sardy]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

...after all, it spent all those centuries since the Dwarves woke it up doing little more than sitting on its... er... hands in Moria.

Actually, it was sitting on its wings...

[Boo Radley]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Why did the Watcher in the Water grab Frodo, of all the Fellowship? Did it just feel some attraction from the Ring...?

This is what I've always believed. The Watcher could sense the power of the Ring and was attracted to it. Likewise, the Balrog, instead of being awakened (Or made aware of the party) by Pippin's dropped rock, also might have sensed the Ring and as the Ring contained quite a bit of Sauron's power, might have thought Sauron himself had come to Moria.

[JeffF.]

I agree, the ring drew the orcs that wiped out Isildur's guard when he lost the ring near Gladden Fields, it drew the Watcher in the Water to Frodo out of the whole group and the orc chietain in Balin's tomb bypassed both Aragorn and Boromir to thrust at Frodo. I also think the Balrog was drawn out of hiding toward the power of the ring. To an evil force such as the Balrog it must have seemed irresistable.

Still, given Sauron's rank among Morgoth's minions as his second in command I think there was some possibility of him drawing the Balrog into his service. in Unfinished Tales Gandalf mentions that Sauron could have made great use of Smaug had Gandalf not contrived to have him slain and it seems to me Smaug and the Balrog were probably similar in power and evil.

[Nessa Telrunya]

Perhaps Sauron could have attempted to draw the Balrog into his service with promises of whatever forms of riches it may desire? Of course, this would only work if he had anything that a Balrog could possibly want-the chances are quite slim, for why would it want to do anything for Sauron?

[PrinceOfTheHalflings]

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

This is what I've always believed. The Watcher could sense the power of the Ring and was attracted to it. Likewise, the Balrog, instead of being awakened (Or made aware of the party) by Pippin's dropped rock, also might have sensed the Ring and as the Ring contained quite a bit of Sauron's power, might have thought Sauron himself had come to Moria.

The Balrog may have also sensed the presence of Gandalf, another Maia.

[Nessa Telrunya]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfTheHalflings

The Balrog may have also sensed the presence of Gandalf, another Maia.

Yes, I think that possibility has been greatly overlooked. Gandalf's presence would surely have been strong enough to at least alert the Balrog, and Pippin's moment of "great common sense" would have woken him, if he wasn't awake already.

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by JeffF.

It was said that Lothlorien had the power to resist any enemy unless Sauron himself should come there so perhaps even the Balrog could not overcome Galadriel but it is likely that it would have been decisive against Thranduil's elves who were not protected by any similar power to Galadriel's.

I'm not so sure that the balrog couldn't have defeated Lothlorien. Yes, if Galadriel had a chance to do battle with the Balrog she might have won, though if the balrog is believed to be stronger than Sauron logically it could have defeated her too.

The bigger problem with defending Lothlorien (and Mirkwood) from the balrog is that they are forests and the Balrog is a creature of shadow and flame. In the time it took somebody to raise the alarm, the Balrog could have cracked his whip and caught a dozen trees on fire.

That's just my thoughts on the matter of course. Somebody else might have a reason why the Balrog wouldn't have been able to just catch the whole place on fire and pick the elves off as the ran.