The best British Writer? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

03-16-2002, 03:14 PM

What do you think was Tolkien the best British writer?
I think he is brilliant, I first read his books when I was 7 and ever since I've been enthralled by them, let me point out I am now in my late teens!
What do you think was he the best of British, or even one of the best in the world?

03-16-2002, 08:02 PM

Best ever, undoubtedly. He was a genius! (I read the books whan I was 5. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )

Lush · 03-17-2002, 10:55 AM

Erm...Many great ones have been born in Britain, and let us not forget the rest of the world while we're at it. Great writers have wildly different styles, subjects, and effects on the reader, and I would never venture to name the absolute best among them. Tolkien is certainly up on that shelf of undisputed greatness though. But the best? I don't think there is one writer that qualifies.

Thingol · 03-17-2002, 12:00 PM

Theres about 10 million really long threads discussing Tolkien's status as a writer of the 20th century and even of all time on this forum. Just look through some of the other threads, I don't see why people are afraid to post on an old thread and dig it up. Instead people insist on creating countless new threads on topics that have already been discussed.

shieldmaiden · 03-17-2002, 12:07 PM

Great, yes, but i wouldn't go that far and call him the best.
As for the posting on old threads you are right.

Thingol · 03-17-2002, 12:12 PM

There are some really, really amazing threads on this board, especially on the New Silmarillion forum. You are really missing out if you don't look through some of the older threads. On this topic alone there are at least 100 eloquent, and sometimes long, posts.

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Thingol ]

03-17-2002, 12:17 PM

Sorry about the new thread!
I'm new so I don't really understand everything yet (I'm also quite new to the internet)

p.s beginers question: how do you get ur member rating to show?

Maikadilwen · 03-17-2002, 01:01 PM

The problem with a lot of the old threads is, that they are dead. I have posted on some of them, and that's it. Nobody noticed, because aparently, everybody had moved on to other topics. So I do understand why new members make new threads.

Kalimac · 03-17-2002, 02:38 PM

The vast majority of the writers that I've read are British, and as Lush says, there are so many wonderful ones it's hard to say that Tolkien is *the* best - partly it also depends on what kind of literature you're looking for. Robert Browning, to pull a random example, was a great British author as was Tolkien (even though Tolkien didn't really like Browning that much), but it's hard to really compare them head to head - comparing "The Ring and the Book" to the Ring of Doom just doesn't work; they're not at all in the same vein. And I'd hesitate to rank Tolkien above Shakespeare and Chaucer. Can't we just leave it at saying that Tolkien was definitely one of the literary Olympians?

Resurrecting old threads is problematic in a couple of ways; I can see that there have been some great debates there, but sometimes the old question has just run out of steam and it needs to be rephrased. Also if you're resurrecting a thread from a year or so ago, most of the people who posted on it may no longer post here, or at least not do so frequently. It's a little difficult to carry on a debate with people who don't respond any more.

Lush · 03-17-2002, 02:56 PM

Yes, a new thread may present the topic in a new light, as well as alleviate some of the newbies' anxiety about posting.
Once again, regarding the "greatest writer" issue, I would also like to point out that big fans of literature as a whole are usually multifaceted in theit tastes. I, for example, worship Tolkien, Vladimir Nabokov, Mikhail Bulgakov, Will Shakespeare, Anna Akhmatova, Paolo Coehlo, Kurt Vonnegut, C.S. Lewis, Stephen King, Jack Kerouac, Wally Lamb, Zadie Smith, Anton Chekhov, Zora Neale Hurston, Herman Hesse, Kate Atkinson, Graham Greene, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Dante....Yeah, you get the point. I hope.

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Lush ]

littlemanpoet · 03-17-2002, 03:02 PM

Tolkien's advantage over most British authors is that he was a philologist, a linguist who knew the English (as well as Germanic and Indo-European language groups) from the inside. He brought his knowledge of language and his personal genius, and personal loves (the Shire, for example), into his favorite genre, myth. What a combination! If he is not the greatest British writer of the 20th century or any century, I would say that he is the greatest writer of myth of the modern era. I would go earlier, but then you're dealing with Snorri Sturrleson and the Beowulf poet, and that is so long ago that it's hard to compare them. The truly awe-inspiring thing about Tolkien is that in an era when myth was considered dead and no better than stories for children, he revived the entire genre singlehandedly and made it respectable; no, he brought it back to its original status as the best genre of literature there is. That's my opinion.

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: littlemanpoet ]

Thingol · 03-17-2002, 05:19 PM

The thing is if you post on an old thread the thread is bumped to the top of the page, I'd think most people check out the threads that are on the top of the page first, even if they are not new threads. The old people may be gone but why should that stop other new people from commenting on the topic? Why would starting a new thread alleviate fear for newbis, I'd think it would be the other way around. This also has the advantage of making people read some of the older responses. As I said, many of the older responses are very inteligent and eloquent.

Lush · 03-17-2002, 05:34 PM

Quote:

As I said, many of the older responses are very inteligent and eloquent.

As are some of the newer ones.

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Lush ]

Thingol · 03-17-2002, 05:50 PM

Not to take away from some of the very intelligent, newer people that post on the boards, but looking back several pages I notice that there are far less cooler elf/most shinny ring threads. The older posters seem to have more Tolkien knowledge and also pay more attention to the directions that are on the top of each forum (Although I have to admit as I write this I realize that my rant has very little to do with advanced Middle Earth discussions, oh well it's not going to stop me from posting it) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] There is much more needless clutter on the boards, I think most people would prefer several longer threads than a million shorter ones.

littlemanpoet · 03-19-2002, 03:44 PM

Goes to show what a popular movie can do, Thingol. Especially a good one. What we have now is a lot of new excited aficianados that are still in their first stages of appreciation of the master's works. It's all part of the ebb and flow and we owe Peter Jackson thanks (whether heartfelt or sarcastic, depending on your point of view) for the latest influx of Tolkien lovers. As for me, I've been a Hobbit lover since 1968. I'd have found this site sooner except I didn't have internet...

dragongirlG · 03-19-2002, 04:01 PM

I don't think you could classify anyone as the BEST writer ever, because different works appeal to people in different ways. For example, Tolkien appeals to me because he writes about this incredible journey that you can get absorbed in. On the other hand, I like Hawthorne because of his symbolism, Steinbeck because of his--ah, how do you say this--humanity? in writing, F. Scott Fitzgerald, John Knowles (A Separate Peace, a very good book that I can relate to), The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger, J.K. Rowling, and other authors. None of these can, however, be classified as THE BEST author ever, because that's not possible.

Joy · 03-20-2002, 12:06 AM

For the genre of fantasy/myth, I would say that Tolkien defanitely is the best of this era. I believe that he brought back the heroic epic to literature. His writings remind me so much of Beowulf, Sir Gawain, Battle of Maldon, Last Survivors Speech, etc...

Of course I like Shakespear, Milton, Dante, Donne, Marvell's To His Coy Mistress, Marlowe's Dr Faustus, Malory's Morte D'Arthur and many others.

03-16-2002, 03:14 PM	#1
Mungo Toadfoot Guest Posts: n/a	The best British Writer? What do you think was Tolkien the best British writer? I think he is brilliant, I first read his books when I was 7 and ever since I've been enthralled by them, let me point out I am now in my late teens! What do you think was he the best of British, or even one of the best in the world?

03-17-2002, 10:55 AM	#3
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	Erm...Many great ones have been born in Britain, and let us not forget the rest of the world while we're at it. Great writers have wildly different styles, subjects, and effects on the reader, and I would never venture to name the absolute best among them. Tolkien is certainly up on that shelf of undisputed greatness though. But the best? I don't think there is one writer that qualifies. __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

03-17-2002, 12:00 PM	#4
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	Theres about 10 million really long threads discussing Tolkien's status as a writer of the 20th century and even of all time on this forum. Just look through some of the other threads, I don't see why people are afraid to post on an old thread and dig it up. Instead people insist on creating countless new threads on topics that have already been discussed. __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

03-17-2002, 12:07 PM	#5
shieldmaiden Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: oblivion Posts: 103	Great, yes, but i wouldn't go that far and call him the best. As for the posting on old threads you are right. __________________ Huonya harya vanyë heni yassen sila i eleni! :)

03-17-2002, 12:12 PM	#6
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	There are some really, really amazing threads on this board, especially on the New Silmarillion forum. You are really missing out if you don't look through some of the older threads. On this topic alone there are at least 100 eloquent, and sometimes long, posts. [ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Thingol ] __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

03-16-2002, 08:02 PM	#2
middlearthelf Guest Posts: n/a	Best ever, undoubtedly. He was a genius! (I read the books whan I was 5. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )

03-17-2002, 12:17 PM	#7
Mungo Toadfoot Guest Posts: n/a	Sorry about the new thread! I'm new so I don't really understand everything yet (I'm also quite new to the internet) p.s beginers question: how do you get ur member rating to show?

03-17-2002, 01:01 PM	#8
Maikadilwen Summoner of Lost Souls Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: At home, with my Strongbow Posts: 521	The problem with a lot of the old threads is, that they are dead. I have posted on some of them, and that's it. Nobody noticed, because aparently, everybody had moved on to other topics. So I do understand why new members make new threads. __________________ -"Death borders upon our birth, and our cradle stands in the grave. Our birth is nothing but our death begun."

03-17-2002, 02:38 PM	#9
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	The vast majority of the writers that I've read are British, and as Lush says, there are so many wonderful ones it's hard to say that Tolkien is the best - partly it also depends on what kind of literature you're looking for. Robert Browning, to pull a random example, was a great British author as was Tolkien (even though Tolkien didn't really like Browning that much), but it's hard to really compare them head to head - comparing "The Ring and the Book" to the Ring of Doom just doesn't work; they're not at all in the same vein. And I'd hesitate to rank Tolkien above Shakespeare and Chaucer. Can't we just leave it at saying that Tolkien was definitely one of the literary Olympians? Resurrecting old threads is problematic in a couple of ways; I can see that there have been some great debates there, but sometimes the old question has just run out of steam and it needs to be rephrased. Also if you're resurrecting a thread from a year or so ago, most of the people who posted on it may no longer post here, or at least not do so frequently. It's a little difficult to carry on a debate with people who don't respond any more. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

03-17-2002, 02:56 PM	#10
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	Yes, a new thread may present the topic in a new light, as well as alleviate some of the newbies' anxiety about posting. Once again, regarding the "greatest writer" issue, I would also like to point out that big fans of literature as a whole are usually multifaceted in theit tastes. I, for example, worship Tolkien, Vladimir Nabokov, Mikhail Bulgakov, Will Shakespeare, Anna Akhmatova, Paolo Coehlo, Kurt Vonnegut, C.S. Lewis, Stephen King, Jack Kerouac, Wally Lamb, Zadie Smith, Anton Chekhov, Zora Neale Hurston, Herman Hesse, Kate Atkinson, Graham Greene, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Dante....Yeah, you get the point. I hope. [ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Lush ] __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

03-17-2002, 03:02 PM	#11
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Tolkien's advantage over most British authors is that he was a philologist, a linguist who knew the English (as well as Germanic and Indo-European language groups) from the inside. He brought his knowledge of language and his personal genius, and personal loves (the Shire, for example), into his favorite genre, myth. What a combination! If he is not the greatest British writer of the 20th century or any century, I would say that he is the greatest writer of myth of the modern era. I would go earlier, but then you're dealing with Snorri Sturrleson and the Beowulf poet, and that is so long ago that it's hard to compare them. The truly awe-inspiring thing about Tolkien is that in an era when myth was considered dead and no better than stories for children, he revived the entire genre singlehandedly and made it respectable; no, he brought it back to its original status as the best genre of literature there is. That's my opinion. [ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: littlemanpoet ]

03-17-2002, 05:19 PM	#12
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	The thing is if you post on an old thread the thread is bumped to the top of the page, I'd think most people check out the threads that are on the top of the page first, even if they are not new threads. The old people may be gone but why should that stop other new people from commenting on the topic? Why would starting a new thread alleviate fear for newbis, I'd think it would be the other way around. This also has the advantage of making people read some of the older responses. As I said, many of the older responses are very inteligent and eloquent. __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

03-17-2002, 05:50 PM	#14
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	Not to take away from some of the very intelligent, newer people that post on the boards, but looking back several pages I notice that there are far less cooler elf/most shinny ring threads. The older posters seem to have more Tolkien knowledge and also pay more attention to the directions that are on the top of each forum (Although I have to admit as I write this I realize that my rant has very little to do with advanced Middle Earth discussions, oh well it's not going to stop me from posting it) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] There is much more needless clutter on the boards, I think most people would prefer several longer threads than a million shorter ones. __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

03-19-2002, 03:44 PM	#15
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Goes to show what a popular movie can do, Thingol. Especially a good one. What we have now is a lot of new excited aficianados that are still in their first stages of appreciation of the master's works. It's all part of the ebb and flow and we owe Peter Jackson thanks (whether heartfelt or sarcastic, depending on your point of view) for the latest influx of Tolkien lovers. As for me, I've been a Hobbit lover since 1968. I'd have found this site sooner except I didn't have internet...

03-19-2002, 04:01 PM	#16
dragongirlG Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Stock, the Shire Posts: 151	I don't think you could classify anyone as the BEST writer ever, because different works appeal to people in different ways. For example, Tolkien appeals to me because he writes about this incredible journey that you can get absorbed in. On the other hand, I like Hawthorne because of his symbolism, Steinbeck because of his--ah, how do you say this--humanity? in writing, F. Scott Fitzgerald, John Knowles (A Separate Peace, a very good book that I can relate to), The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger, J.K. Rowling, and other authors. None of these can, however, be classified as THE BEST author ever, because that's not possible.

03-20-2002, 12:06 AM	#17
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	For the genre of fantasy/myth, I would say that Tolkien defanitely is the best of this era. I believe that he brought back the heroic epic to literature. His writings remind me so much of Beowulf, Sir Gawain, Battle of Maldon, Last Survivors Speech, etc... Of course I like Shakespear, Milton, Dante, Donne, Marvell's To His Coy Mistress, Marlowe's Dr Faustus, Malory's Morte D'Arthur and many others. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?