Absolute Good in Lord of the Rings

[Cailín]

Well, it has been ages since I posted, but of course I have not forgotten about you and in times of great need still happily abuse your knowledge of the books.

I'm currently writing an essay on the high fantasy genre and during writing, the following question came up:

Who, if anyone, in Lord of the Rings embodies absolute good?

I welcome both in-depth answers with textual evidence as gut-feeling responses, which is why I thought this the most suitable forum.

[Gollum the Great]

Originally Posted by Cailín

Who, if anyone, in Lord of the Rings embodies absolute good?

I don't believe anyone in LOTR personified good, in and of itself. In ME Eru did, because Tolkien was no doubt following the Catholic principle (or whatever you call it) that God is goodness itself and therefore can have no flaw, no injustice, do no wrong, and that sort of thing.

In LOTR, there are several who come closest, but none who embody absolute good. I think Bombadil is about the closest you'll get, being innocent and incorruptible.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

I don't believe in LOTR personified good, in and of itself. In ME Eru did, because Tolkien was no doubt following the Catholic principle (or whatever you call it) that God is goodness itself and therefore can have no flaw, no injustice, do no wrong, and that sort of thing.

You hit the nail right on the head, Gollum. In order for Tolkien to personify good in a certain character his works would become allegorical, and Tolkien specifically said he detests allegories (I think I'll go and look that quote up for y'all).

Frodo comes to mind as the one who resists evil (being the Ring) the most in the story. Unlike other characters, he is almost always susceptible to the corruption of the Ring, but he always comes out on top, except for the final task of getting rid of the evil. Of course Frodo was effected by the Rings power, but he shows more spunk in resisting it 9/10 times. Even he can't be described as the personification of good, Sam certainly fills the gap. When Frodo falls Sam is there to help him back up, but when Sam's temper gets the better of himself, and he treats Gollum ill, Frodo is there to treat Gollum as an equal. I think those two are the closest you get to "good".

[Lalwendë]

I don't think any character embodies 'absolute good' in Lord of the Rings, for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, as Tolkien created Eru as creator of his secondary world, and as an Omnipotent god figure, it wouldn't be possible for any other character to be 'better' than Eru in terms of being 'absolute good'. If say Gandalf was an ambodiment of 'absolute good' then this would make him better than Eru and that wouldn't sit well with the existence of Eru.

Secondly, Tolkien states that he does not believe that 'absolute Evil' existed in his creation. While that does not exclude 'absolute Good' (unless you think it is Dualistic or something like that) it does mean that Tolkien created a Creator who could/would allow 'evil' to exist; in the Silmarillion it states that the works of Morgoth ultimately only served to make Eru's works better. What I'm trying to say is that even Eru is not 'absolute Good', he is simply Eru and beyond all of that, beyond the ken of mere Men and Elves and even Valar.

Thirdly, as we've discussed many times, our 'heroes' all have flaws. None of them are 'perfect' - even Gandalf is a grumpy old pipe-smoking hippy (), Frodo has his weakness, Tom Bombadil does not 'get involved' but hangs out in his woods singing trippy songs...etc...Lord of the Rings is a tale where there are no perfect saintly or muscle-bound 'heroes', but lots of very interesting people with failings just like us, doing their best.

[Gollum the Great]

While I agree with most of what you said, Lal, I take issue with this.

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

What I'm trying to say is that even Eru is not 'absolute Good', he is simply Eru and beyond all of that, beyond the ken of mere Men and Elves and even Valar.

From what I read of Eru (not from the Elves perspective), he was ME's God. Being God meant being "Goodness" itself, as a devout Catholic like Tolkien would hold.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

While I agree with most of what you said, Lal, I take issue with this.



From what I read of Eru (not from the Elves perspective), he was ME's God. Being God meant being "Goodness" itself, as a devout Catholic like Tolkien would hold.

I don't know whether he was 'God' as in the Real World 'God', and if he was then there's a lot of interpretations of that, though he may well have been Tolkien's vision of what God was/is like. But I go from what's in the texts and in the Sil Eru doesn't state he is anything (in terms of good/bad or other judgements) other than he 'is'. And he also strikes me as like the vision of God (real world this time - I should be strict and distinguish them by using/omitting capital letters ) we see in the Book of Job, who demonstrates that he is beyond our notions of good/bad by doing some quite horrible things to Job - and thus emphasising both his omnipotence and his mystery.

That's what I mean by the concept of 'Goodness' not really applying to Eru.