Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
|
12-02-2008, 08:25 AM | #1 | |||
Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,205
|
Who was the old man?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It does make sense Saruman perhaps so keen to get his hands on the Ring went as far so as to leave Isengard and go take it himself, but only discovered the corpses of the Uruks and afterwards caused the horses to flee hoping to weaken the three Hunters that way. However, he was planning much at that time and was preparing to attack at the Fords of the Isen, this makes me doubt him leaving Orthanc at that time. What is your opinion?
__________________
“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
|||
12-02-2008, 08:55 AM | #2 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
|
It is of course an open question, and a favorite technique of
Tolkien in using ambiguous interpretations (a technique I rather like). Saruman was, I think, almost certainly not there in person, but projecting some sort of wraith works for me in a more satisfactory way then PJ;s having having Saruman manipulate Caradhras to cause a snowstorm. But one aspect of Middle-earth PJ blew was the concept of autonomous forces for good and evil, hence the "old man" could well have been some other force then Saruman, however, I think Tolkien's view of it may have been to 1) create an unresolved suspense 2) put in another anomolous element (like Tom bambadil).
__________________
The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' |
12-02-2008, 10:23 AM | #3 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,037
|
If we take Gandalf's word that is was not he who appeared to the three, it must have been Saruman, whether physically present or not. To me, the presence of another old man who just happened to be in the area and refused Aragorn's offer of fire and company would strain credibility. I would be inclined to think he was actually there, looking for evidence of the Ring, or at least Merry and Pippin.
Even though heavily involved in planning his war on the Rohirrim, I can well imagine his leaving Isengard for a few days to try to find first hand information on the whereabouts of the Ring. Sorry for the brevity, but I'm at work and duty calls.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God. |
12-02-2008, 11:08 AM | #4 | |||
Child of the West
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn
Posts: 2,132
|
I always assumed it was Saruman or at least his phantom. If Gandalf had sent a phantom of himself he would have told the three hunters.
I always forget about this part until I read it, then for a few chapters I'm perplexed until I forget about it and the process starts anew when I reread. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain |
|||
12-02-2008, 11:25 AM | #5 |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
|
Saruman.
And didn't Gimli look for boot tracks, but can't remember if he ever found them. And didn't Aragorn say something like they didn't matter? And Legolas would have spotted that it was a phantom, so most likely it was Saruman out for a stroll, and having come across three hunters in the woods - no hobbits, no Rings, etc - he left as the three were of no concern. And just what was that small rumbling in Fangorn?!? Or maybe it was Tom Bombadil's shyer brother...
__________________
There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
|
12-02-2008, 11:45 AM | #6 | ||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
|
Quote:
I have been little puzzled though, if I recall, didn't the old man smile at Aragorn&co? I could imagine that if he found the Orcs dead, and presumed them having the Ring first, he would be scared to death! (Now somebody surely has the Ring - who? Sauron? The Rohirrim? These three guys???) He acted very calm. Okay, maybe that would speak also for that not being Saruman in person - this was just a harmless phantom, Saruman in flesh and blood would have shown the three guys some of his power to get them to answer his questions (or hand over the Ring). The only thing I can think of about stopping a live Saruman from doing that is that he would be more afraid of the three guys than he gave away, possibly afraid of them having the Ring and being powerful enough to use it against them? Or that he thought them merely "some three wanderers", which would be most weird, though: and Elf and a Dwarf, and just by chance close to the place where the Orcs were killed. If he was scared of them, I could imagine him at least scaring away their horses, if he couldn't do anything else. But I find it now actually more probable (after thinking about it) that it was really just a phantom of Saruman, not Saruman himself (although until this far, I presumed it was Saruman, without giving it much thought). Quote:
Older brother, eh? Oh no, wait... TB is "Eldest"... in that case, younger brother. Ha, what does it mean then? The Bombadils' look the older, the younger they are! A very interesting contribution to the obscure topic of Bombadilology. Projecting? Hmm... "Lord Uglúk?" "Yes, Master." "We have a new enemy. The young Hobbit who destroyed the Death Star..."
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
||
|
|