LotR Sauron vs. Silm Sauron?

[Nogrod]

Sauron is the evil principle in the LotR.

But as evil principles go, he's pretty tasteless and formless (). A bit dull one indeed. There's no personality, no great integral problems, traits or characteristics. Just the evil principle. Abstract and lacking of any believable or interesting persona or individual identity.

But in the Silmarillion he he comes more alive, more interesting and somewhat contradictory - which I always regard as a mark of a believable character.

One may call him the deceiver in the LotR, but he is a deceiver only in the Silm. In the LotR he's just the faceless bad while in the Silm he's a poet, a certain sweet-talker who needed to put everything at stake; a smith unparalleled, a subordinate gaining power living alongside his master all those millenia, one who needed to flee away only to take revenge for his cause...

Is it just that these are written afterwards and the Sauron of the LotR is just the immature and incomplete version of the Sauron to whom Tolkien finally had time to invest and think about later?

What say you?

[Gollum the Great]

Well, I wouldn't say that LOTR Sauron was personality-less. I see him more as an evil mastermind/lord/Satan bereaved of his superweapon to conquer the world in one swift blow. After failing to locate and reclaim his weapon he simply does the smart thing: maneuver what other forces he has into position so that no one else can rival him with his ring.
One might take Gandalf's argument and state that if he'd want to keep the ring from being destroyed he should have defended Mordor with all his armies and made sure no one could get in, but look at it from both Sauron's and the unbiased observer's eye: which was more likely, that the ring would be found by an easily corrupted person, or an unique person who could resist it? And had the ring not been found, there was no point in allowing the Free Peoples to prosper and grow.
All in all though, Gorthaur in the Silmarillion was a more interesting character. There he was not totally in charge of evil, but a servant, and a powerful one at that. I believe Tolkien did not fully think out the Sauron character in LOTR, but decided to give us some history of him and show some abilities and might of his in the Sil.

Good question, Nog.

[Inziladun]

Nogrod

Is it just that these are written afterwards and the Sauron of the LotR is just the immature and incomplete version of the Sauron to whom Tolkien finally had time to invest and think about later?

I think it important to keep in mind that the events in LOTR were ostensibly recorded by hobbit witnesses. When did they have an opportunity to observe Sauron in person, to get inside his mind, to explore his motivations? He spent the entire time in Mordor, and had no personal contact with any of the principal actors of the story. Who would have been in a position to report details of his personality?
During the First Age, Sauron, as the prime lieutenant of Morgoth, was obligated to personally oversee the accomplishment of many of his master's objectives. This would have brought him into more personal contact with his enemies, and thus into the written histories as something more than a far off, generic evil.
In the Second Age we see even more of him, again, because he is personally going about achieving his own ends, and not leaving all to subordinates.

Gollum the Great

Well, I wouldn't say that LOTR Sauron was personality-less. I see him more as an evil mastermind/lord/Satan bereaved of his superweapon to conquer the world in one swift blow. After failing to locate and reclaim his weapon he simply does the smart thing: maneuver what other forces he has into position so that no one else can rival him with his ring.

Sauron had, in effect, become like Morgoth: content to trust his servants and simply direct them to do his will. And really, what need was there for him to do otherwise?

[skip spence]

Inziladun makes a good point in that LotR is from a Hobbit perspective. As far as we know, Sauron might still be a great character in Frodo's time, a charismatic conversationalist with an array of daring and diabolical tricks in the bag, but how can Frodo (the alleged author) know anything about that? That said, I think Sauron well could've made an appearance or two. I would've like to see that. There is after all one character in the book who had met Sauron in person. "He has only four [fingers] on the Black Hand, but they are enough" Gollum says of him.

Before the fall of Numenor Sauron had all his Maiar-traits intact and could still appear as a fair and wise figure. Late in the third age he had long lost this ability for shape-shifting and was no longer able to infiltrate a society to deceive them in person. His physical incarnation was now a tall and terrible Dark Lord with fear and power as his weapons of choice.

[Alfirin]

There are touches of the old "tempter" sauron even in the LOTR. Consider his reported action with Gloin mentioned by Gimli in the ring council. Rather than simply attempting to go in an conquer the Dwarves by force, he send a messanger with an offer of peace, friendship, and a reward (new dwarven rings) in exchange for the Dwarves alliance and thier help in locating the one ring. True, the offer is utimately not accepted, and Sauron may not yet be in a position to lauch a full scale attack on anyone, dwarf or otherwise at the time the offer is made, but it is still an offer, and offers like that are the mark of one who still understands the concept of guile.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

That said, I think Sauron well could've made an appearance or two. I would've like to see that.

Me too. But I don't know if it had ruined the effect, the air of evil about him. In my opinion, Tolkien handled portraying Melkor quite well, but it's possible it wouldn't have suited Sauron of Lotr that nicely.

I agree Inziladun's point about Lotr being narrated by hobbits was good. In spite of all the hobbits' good traits, they are rather simple characters, easily led by the wise. I find it extremely hard to believe they would have spent a moment thinking what Sauron's motives for wanting to conquer Middle-earth might have been, and therefore Sauron is pictured as the extreme evil. If you are convinced to think a certain way by someone you respect, it's not easy to start thinking from the opponent's point of view (and this is why I like Frodo; I think he learnt it in the end). Who knows - maybe Sauron in truth believed what he was doing was right and for the good of everyone. See - if we think about the real world, we can find people who honestly think their aim is good even though the rest of the world finds them nothing but evil.

Tolkien started working on the Silmarillion long before Lotr, but I don't remember when Sauron first stepped into the picture. He is a fascinating, interesting character in the Sil, though, and he and Finrod's singing contest is pure gold.

However, I have always wondered what was the relationship between Melkor and Sauron. When Sauron came to Númenor and preached about Melkor as a saviour, did he believe it himself? Had Melkor had such a power on him; how much work had he had to do to lure Sauron and other ainur to his side? Did he really view Melkor as the true god, or was it just his means to subject the Númenoreans? Sauron himself was clearly a god-like character to some peoples.
Or did Sauron see serving Melkor just as an opportunity to get power? Or did he really believe in Melkor's cause and wanted to help him however he could?