Would Gandalf ever discipline Hobbits?

This might sound like an odd question, but Gandalf did, at times of great need, man handle (or should I say, Hobbit handle) Sam when he was caught eaves dropping. Likewise, gollum was pressed with the fear of fire in order to get some news out of him. Bilbo & Butterbur were a whisker away from getting the same treatment.

So would Gandalf ever beat a hobbit in the event of sheer anger and frustration, much to the likes of the ill-tempered Farmer Maggot?

[Morthoron]

No.

[Inziladun]

Though impatient with those who displayed foolishness (understandably, considering the deadly seriousness of his business), I don't see Gandalf ever physically punishing any creature out of frustration or anger. He didn't hurt Pippin when he gave away the presence of the Nine Walkers in Moria, or when he nearly brought ruin on them all with his use of the Palantír of Orthanc.
Saying he thought of "roasting (Butturbur) over a slow fire" is hardly the same as doing it.
As for Gollum, Gandalf only threatened him with fire, and did not actually harm him.
In Bilbo's case, Gandalf had to do something to get Bilbo's attention, before the Ring gained too much of a hold for him to be able to let it go.
Gandalf always knew where to draw the line, and so avoided becoming like Sauron or Saruman, who, I'm sure, had no compunction as regards to venting their displeasure on their slaves.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

No.

Could you go into a bit more detail if possible? Just saying no does not meet the high standard responses the Barrow-Downs is renowned for.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mansun

Could you go into a bit more detail if possible? Just saying no does not meet the high standard responses the Barrow-Downs is renowned for.

I don't believe the question warranted any further response. Gandalf's character is evident to anyone who has read LotR. He may bluster, he may cajole, he may even threaten, but never does he use violence against those weaker than him in a non-battle situation, particularly against Halflings (and I would include Gollum in that definition). As a matter of fact, he specifically eschewed violence against Gollum (the 'mercy' speech to Frodo), and Saruman.

Again, the question seemed a bit flippant and unnecessary, given the extraordinary length of discussions regarding Gandalf's compassion and mercy on these forums. For further discussion, I refer you to Inziladun's post, which seems to cover all the necessary points quite admirably.

There is really nothing further to discuss. *shrugs*

[Folwren]

I would say likely not - probably for the same reasons that Inziladun stated. The examples of his handling of Pippin in Moria and after the incident with the Palantir are good examples of what he'd likely do in a case of 'anger and frustration'. These two occasions, wherein Pippin acted out of foolish curiosity and without any maturity or self-control, are likely the most deservant of any sort of beating, and yet Gandalf did not. In Moria, he did reward Pippin for his actions by making him stand first watch - and when doing so, let him know that he was displeased with him.

Gandalf is probably wise enough to realize that such punishment would not really be effective. Spanking/beating anyone never does any good if done in a temper. Often times, I've noticed, he was mainly angry because he was frightened. In any other situation, I imagine he'd be amused.

I think his idea was 'the punishment shall fit the crime.' So...Pippin was badly, badly frightened when he looked at the palantir. He learned his lesson, enough said. Pippin caused the Fellowship's presence to be made known in Moria, so he stands first watch to be haunted by his own fears. Sam eavesdropped on Frodo and Gandalf while talking about important matters that had to be kept secret, so he has to go with Frodo to make sure he doesn't talk!

[Boromir88]

I think Inziladun has covered the question very well, but another marker to judge a person's character is from other characters:

"Yes I do know him: the only wizard that really cares about trees," said Treebeard...~Treebeard

"I would not snare even an orc with a falsehood," said Faramir.

"Were I as hasty as you, I might have slain you long ago. For I am commanded to slay all whome I find in this land without the leave of the Lord of Gondor. But I do not slay man or beast needlessly, and not gladly even when it is needed. Neither do I talk in vain. So be comfoted. Sit by your master, and be silent!"~The Window on the West

"You have my pity," said Theoden. "And I do not send you from my side. I go myself to war with my men. I bid you come with me and prove your faith."~King of the Golden Hall

All these people trusted, learned from, or were in some way counselled by Gandalf. They don't sound like the hot tempered, beating type.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

No.

I fear you have been seduced by the Dark Side
( i. e., the ROTK movie with the absurd,
and against the strictures of the Valar)
Gandalf assaulting The Steward of Gondor.

[Gothbogg the Ripper]

Would Gandalf ever physically assault a Hobbit?
Yes. He probably would. The man has a horrible temper. Sure, this is outshined by his sage advice and bravery but he doesn't suffer fools gladly.
I can easily imagine a scenario in which he may get carried away. He acts from the heart, not his head.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Gothbogg the Ripper

Would Gandalf ever physically assault a Hobbit?
Yes. He probably would. The man has a horrible temper. Sure, this is outshined by his sage advice and bravery but he doesn't suffer fools gladly.
I can easily imagine a scenario in which he may get carried away. He acts from the heart, not his head.

What world are you living in? Gandalf doesn't really get carried away, he's the embodiment of veiled power. He had many times in which he could have gone totally nutso and yet he retains his composure throughout a great deal of the books.
So no, he wouldn't ever beat up a Hobbit. Probaby because he never thought himself massively superior to them.

[Legolas]

Moving this over to 'Novices & Newcomers' - seems like a question anyone can respond to, and there's no real textual evidence that can be provided.

Unless that chapter was removed from my copies.

[Rumil]

Weeellll,

I'm tempted to say yes (more or less)...

It's shown that Gandalf did 'discipline' hobbits as he made Pippin sit the first watch in Moria as a punishment for foolishness. This does not mean physical chastisement however.

Would Gandalf beat a hobbit black and blue with a stout stick (staff) out of anger? Of course not, he's not that sort of a Maia.

Is there a possible (but unlikely) situation where Gandalf would physically discipline a hobbit? Naturally speculation but...

-A slap on the hand to a hobbit child or 'tween filching fireworks or trying to pick up Glamdring could be possible, more for the child's safety than anything else. Before the days of PC-ness such a thing would likely pass without comment. If I remember in the film G twists Merry and Pippins' ears a bit when he catches them at the fireworks and this seems unremarkable, but technically counts!

I guess that hobbits would use some mild corporal punishment on their children, but if such 'formal' punishment was deserved, then it would be the parents' responsibility, not Gandalf's.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Weeellll,

I'm tempted to say yes (more or less)...

It's shown that Gandalf did 'discipline' hobbits as he made Pippin sit the first watch in Moria as a punishment for foolishness. This does not mean physical chastisement however.

Would Gandalf beat a hobbit black and blue with a stout stick (staff) out of anger? Of course not, he's not that sort of a Maia.

But that is the actual question asked in the first post– very specific: "So would Gandalf ever beat a hobbit in the event of sheer anger and frustration?" (my italics).

An act motivated purely by anger is not "discipline" by definition, unless you're using the word as a euphemism. So the thread title and the explanation in the first post are in contradiction.

[Elmo]

The hobbits were small not children. A common mistake to make, I believe Boromir and Denethor made the same. Why not ask the question would he have beaten Boromir or Gimli or even Aragorn as they were adults as well. Would Gandalf have picked on the hobbits just because they were small?

[Kitanna]

No, never. Gandalf would never let his anger get so out of control. EVER.

[Kitanna]

I do believe this is getting out of hand. If this thread continues as it is I imagine some sort of a virtual rumble will soon follow.

In regards to the exact question Mansun posed

So would Gandalf ever beat a hobbit in the event of sheer anger and frustration, much to the likes of the ill-tempered Farmer Maggot?

No, never.

But would he discipline Hobbits? Of course. But I don't think anything physical, even a clip on the ear would be his style. Chores and standing watch seemed more his speed in disciplining.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Please keep your posts objective and on-topic, people. Personal comments will be deleted without notice, so if you prefer to keep control over your own posts, edit them before I do.

On second thought, I am closing this thread. That last photo was completely out of place and has been deleted.

If anyone has a really important on-topic contribution to make to the thread, please PM me and I *may* consider reopening it.