The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-25-2007, 06:53 PM   #1
CSteefel
Wight
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 204
CSteefel has just left Hobbiton.
Exactly what power did the Ring of Fire give to Gandalf?

While re-reading LOTR yet again, I realize that I am hazy on what exactly the Ring of Fire did for Gandalf. Certainly, he uses fire effectively in several places, for example, the showdown with the wolves after the Fellowship's failed attempt on crossing the Misty Mountains. And there are the fireworks as well, but...

This also got me thinking that the comparisons in power between Gandalf and others have tended to rely on Gandalf's position within the hierarchy of Middle Earth (a Maia), but the Ring of Fire doesn't seem to be factored in here. Given that the Rings held by Elrond and Galadriel seem to secure entire regions (Rivendell and Lothlorien, respectively), one would think that the Ring of Fire is a substantial augmentation of Gandalf's power...
__________________
`These are indeed strange days,' he muttered. `Dreams and legends spring to life out of the grass.'
CSteefel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 07:17 PM   #2
johnboy3434
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Exactly what power did the Ring of Fire give to Gandalf?

I hear he could cook up the best salsa this side of the Anduin.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 08:21 PM   #3
Lord Halsar
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL!
Posts: 77
Lord Halsar has just left Hobbiton.
Narya

Well, i always thought that it may have given him resistance to fire aswell. After-all, he was holding on to he balrog's leg in the caverns beneath Khazad-Dum(as far as my memory can be used when speaking of his fight with the creature). Perhaps it was his ring that allowed him to do so, for I would guess that, even doused, the balrog's skin would still be like hot coals.
But i don't have much to back that up however. That's the only example of such that I can remember.
__________________
My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...
Lord Halsar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 09:01 PM   #4
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,518
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
I don't think Narya being called 'The Ring of Fire' has anything to do with the power that it gives to Gandalf. It was also called 'The Red Ring' as the stone set in it was a ruby.

The Elven Rings weren't made to be weapons, or to increase their bearers powers. There powers were in preservation and protection. Galadriel sustains and protects Lorien by the power of her Ring, same as Elrond. But the Rings themselves are not actual weapons.

As far as Narya's powers, I think Cirdan offers a good explanation:
Quote:
'Take this ring, Master,' he said 'for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill.'~Appendix B: Tale of Years; The Third Age
I think we see the power of Narya at work in a couple instances. One being in the battle with Durin's Bane. But not by giving Gandalf any sort of increased power, but by giving him strength when he was weary. As Cirdan says 'it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself'...Gandalf remarks that his confrontation with the Balrog at the gate in Balin's Tomb (although at the time Gandalf didn't know it was a Balrog), had drained him and he was already 'weary.'

Also in the Siege of Minas Tirith for some reason people were inspired to continue to fight when Gandalf was around:
Quote:
So it was that Gandalf took command of the last defence of the City of Gondor. Wherever he came men's hearts would lift again, and the winged shadows pass from memory.~The Siege of Gondor
While Galadriel and Elrond used their rings to protect (as well as 'stop the decay of time' - preserve) their realms...Narya you could say 'preserved' the heart in men.
__________________
Fenris Penguin
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2007, 05:18 AM   #5
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,458
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
I am afraid I am going to disagre with Boro a little here.

I do think there is significance in the names of the ring and their powers. Partly they of course echo the fate of the Silmarils - one in air as Earendil's star, one cast into a fiery chasm (fire/earth) and one in the water of the sea.

It says somewhere that the stars are seen clearest over Rivendell and Galadriel's realm is protected in part by rivers and her power is manifested through the medium of water in that her "mirror" is a basin of water and in the Phial is "caught the light of Earendil's star, set amid the waters of my fountain". Of course this is not clear cut - Elrond also uses the river to protect his lands but I think there is significance in the elements the rings are associated with. Gandalf is associated with fire, fire works but " with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill" is surely significant. In Valinor, Olorin inspired or "kindled" hearts to achieve more. This particular ring perhaps accentuated the innate power which was limited by his physical incarnation.

Jean Chausse gave a lecture at Oxonmoot last year which dealt greatly with Gandalf and fire (though from a Catholic perspective) but I don't have time now to write it up. More later I hope.
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”

Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2007, 06:43 AM   #6
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
Legate of Amon Lanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Narya

I am afraid I'm going to agree with both Boro and Mith here

First, I think the Ring increased the power of the wearer to manipulate with fire, as Mith said, it is with no doubt that the other Rings gave their bearers certain powers to manipulate with their realms.

But second and I think mainly, is what you have agreed on - in the "fire" terms - rekindling the spirits of others, and of the bearer. Gandalf's aid to the West was in supporting the resistance against Sauron, he did not use his power as Saruman did - or wanted to: he walked among people, here and there, and where the power of the Westerners was weakened, he rekindled the spirits (I just recall the same happened at Pelennor fields, literally). Remember Théoden (though it was after his re-birth), I can't think of a better "rekindling effect". It does not matter to what scale the powers came from Gandalf himself and to what scale from the Ring - actually, the Ring was more like "boosting" the owner's abilities, and here the Ring probably gave Gandalf the strength to do good (hence the temptation he speaks about when mentioning the One Ring - he knew that the One could maybe give him even more strength than Narya, but he was aware of the fact that it would lead him to falling to the Ring).

In the books, there are many moments when, I believe, we can see the work of Narya (for example I think the battle with the Nazgul at Weathertop, on Caradhras, against the wolves near Moria, meeting with Aragorn&co. in Fangorn, battle with the Nazgul attacking Faramir, stopping the Witch-king, response to Wormtongue etc), but it's never shown explicitely - as with all the Elven Rings, and with Narya the most, it remains hidden. In all the books, I believe, there is only one moment when we are told that the Ring is used, and that's the battle with the Balrog: "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor." (though even here it's not explicite, but quite easily understandable from the words)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Halsar
Well, i always thought that it may have given him resistance to fire aswell.
I believe not. And please, I hope no one here is thinking in the cathegories of D&D or similar games. Narya was not a "Ring of Fire Resistance +70%" or anything like that. Concerning the fire itself, your argument about the balrog probably won't stand, since even before they fell, Gandalf was burned. And since we are not playing the 70% resistance here, the only possibility would be to protect from the fire at all, which is refutated by that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The White Rider
Long I fell, and he fell with me. His fire was about me. I was burned.
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
Legate of Amon Lanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:53 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.