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09-13-2007, 11:22 AM
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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Pleased to meet you, Frodo... Reppuli?
LotR has been translated into many languages, and my impression is that in most cases the names of the people and the places have been translated as well. I thought it would be very interesting to hear how the names sound in other languages and I thought you'd maybe like to know by what names me, Nogrod, Aganzir, spawn and other Finnish people have first learned to know the characters with.
So, without further ramblings, we have... A fellowhip consisting of Frodo Reppuli (reppu = backpack), called by his most loyal friend Frodo-herra (Mr Frodo, obv.) and who lives in Repunpää (Bag End), in Hobittila (Hobbiton), in Kontu (The Shire). Samvais "Sam" Gamgi Meriadoc "Merri" Rankkibuk Peregrin "Pippin" Tuk Aragorn, also called Konkari (Strider, even though Konkari's meaning is more like "experienced one") Gandalf, Boromir, Legolas and Gimli And then some other words and names... hobbit = hobitti neeker-breeker = skikirikittäjä warg = hukka Barliman Butterbur = Viljami Voivalvatti Bill Ferny = Bil Imarre Shelob = Lukitar Old Man Willow = Vanha halavaukko Treebeard = Puuparta Quickbeam = Äkkipää Bree = Brii Brandywine = Rankkivuo Midgewater = Sääskisuo Weathertop = Viimapää Laketown = Järvikaupunki Dale = Laakso The Lonely Mountain = Yksinäinen vuori Mirkwood = Synkmetsä Greenway = Vihertie Gladden Fields = Kurjenmiekkojen kenttä Dead Marshes = Kalmansuot Dimrill Dale = Hämypuron laakso Misty Mountains = Sumuvuoret The Old Forest = Vanha metsä Isengard = Rautapiha Dunland = Mustainmaa Carrock = Otavankalle Shadowfax = Hallavaharja Snowmane = Lumiharja Firefoot = Tulijalka And of course The Barrow-Downs = Hautakerot barrow-wight = haudanhaamu How do these sound to you?  Are you interested in hearing how some other name has been translated or something else about the translation (which is, by the way, very well made, if you ask me)? Just voice your question here. And if your mother tongue is something else than English or Finnish, feel free to/ please share some names with us. 
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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09-13-2007, 12:19 PM
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#2 | |
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Everlasting Whiteness
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams
Posts: 4,533
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Cheers Lommy!
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“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” |
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09-13-2007, 12:45 PM
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#3 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Wonderful!
I can easily imagine that if Tolkien was partially inspired by Finnish, the names could very well fit. Personally, I find them quite euphonious. It's partially as half-discovering a different world, if you know what I mean? I will probably spend some time reading it and trying to say it aloud. Really nice
And considering the translation details, please go ahead. I'm interested and if anyone wouldn't, then he can simply skip it  All right. Here are some names in Czech. In general, the translation I think was very well done. The translator who did most of the work was a woman, Stanislava Pošustová, who had to work with some already lined-out names, because The Hobbit was translated first a long time before the other works, but even she considered it good enough translation, so she just continued in the line. Here are the names: The Fellowship: Frodo Pytlík (literally meaning "little sack"), from Dno Pytle ("bottom of the sack") in Hobitín (Hobbiton), Kraj (Shire) Samvěd (Samwise) Křepelka (meaning "quail". By the way, what the heck does "Gamgee" mean? I never thought about it, I probably subconsciously considered that it means the same. Now I can't seem to find the possible meaning of "Gamgee" anywhere.) Btw his father's name is Pecka, short for Peckoslav - the translator spent a long time in the appendix to LotR explaining origins of that one. "Pecka" is in Czech just the "stone" (of some fruit), or also a word for someone who just sits and does nothing. The name "Peckoslav" has the -slav suffix typical for ancient Czech (or Slavic) names, derived from the word "sláva" - meaning "glory". Similar names still can be found, for example my real name "Rostislav" is one of these having really ancient feeling to them. Smělmír (Meriadoc) or Smíšek (Laugher) Brandorád (Brandy-liker) Peregrin/Pipin Bral (Took, indeed as the past tense of "take") Aragorn alias Chodec (more like Walker, also what you call the people who walk in opposite to those who drive the cars) Gandalf, Boromir, Legolas, Gimli (losers...) Other friends&villains: Barliman Butterbur - Ječmínek Máselník (! does not have short version of the name) Bill Ferny - Vili Potměchuť Goldberry - Zlatěnka Gríma Wormtongue - Gríma Červivec Old Man Willow - Dědek Vrbák Rose Cotton - Růža Chaloupková Shelob - Odula Smaug - Šmak (meaning something like "appetite" or "taste". That comes from the translation of the Hobbit - the second translator generally tried more to catch Tolkien's meaning in the words, though I find that one quite nice.) Treebeard - Stromovous (The Ents deserve their own category Leaflock - Listovlas Quickbeam - Řeřábek Skinbark - Korkož Creatures: hobbit - hobit neeker-breeker - škrkavka (the sound they make is "škvrk-krk") warg - vrrk (Czech has a nice habit of allowing "R" and "L" to form syllables. "Wolf" is "vlk", thus, "vrrk" is a nice playing with the word while staying very close to original English sound.) Places: Bree - Hůrka (is also a part of Prague and a metro station - not so long, before it was a village on the outskirts) Brandywine - Brandyvína (víno = wine) Buckland - Rádovsko (cf. Merry's name above) Carrock - Skalbal Cloudyhead - Mračivec Dale - Dol Dead Marshes - Mrtvé močály Dimrill Dale - Rmutný dol Dunland - Vrchovina Ettenmoors - Obroviště ("Giantshire") Gladden Fields - Kosatcová pole Greenway - Zelená cesta Helm's Deep - Helmův Žleb Isengard - Železný pas Lake-town - Jezerní město The Lonely Mountain - Osamělá Hora Midgewater Marshes - Komáří močály (Midge Marshes) Mirkwood - Temný Hvozd ("Dark Wood") Misty Mountains - Mlžné hory The Old Forest - Starý hvozd Redhorn - Rudoroh Rivendell - Roklinka Silvertine - Stříbrný Špičák Weathertop - Větrov ("Windy") Shadowfax - Stínovlas Snowmane - Bělohřívák Firefoot - Ohnivec And The Barrow-Downs - Mohylové vrchy barrow-wight - mohylový duch (If anyone has trouble with guessing how the heck some of the strange letters are pronounced, maybe this article at Wikipedia may be of help, I see it is available there in quite a lot of languages.) P.S. I could also say that the translator considered the Rohirric names to be translated in Old Church Slavonic, the first literary Slavic language, which was spoken here around 9th century. She said that she thought it would make the sound of the Rohirric names similar to how the English people hear them (like names similar to ancient forms of words in their modern language). She even started to translate it like that, but then she decided that though it would make a good connection on the language base, it would lead us away on the cultural base, while the Rohirrim are even culturally close to the Anglo-saxon civilisation. Maybe a shame for the linguists, since we'd have no Éomer or Théoden (not speaking of Eorl the Young and even older people), but on the other hand good for us, the names could be indeed too "exotic" for the story.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories Last edited by Legate of Amon Lanc; 09-13-2007 at 01:54 PM. |
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09-13-2007, 02:37 PM
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#4 |
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Flame of the Ainulindalë
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves
Posts: 9,308
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Tasting the Czech words was nice!
I'd just like to add a few comments on Lommy's list to show where the Finnish versions deviate from the literal translations (or where I believe they do it). Surely even words translated literally evoke different meanings in different languages but that would be a bit too challenging to try and point them out... Meriadoc "Merri" Rankkibuk - Sorry if I meddle with your nice feelings with this Kath but "rankki" actually means "distiller's grain". "Buk" then again means nothing in Finnish. Bill Ferny = Bill Imarre - It is a plant as well but comes pretty close to word "imarrella" which means to flatter or to cajole. Quickbeam = Äkkipää - "Pää" is indead "head", "end" or "top". So a "quickhead" would be simply someone who is fast at coming to conclusions, quick to act. So the connotations to wooden things to build with, to smile or to light are lost. Brandywine = Rankkivuo - Rankki still is "distiller's grain" and "vuo" is "stream" or "flow". So "Distiller's grain's stream". Midgewater = Sääskisuo - "Midgebog" or "-swamp" or "-marsh". Weathertop = Viimapää - "Windtop" or more adequately "Piercing wind top / head" as "viima" is no light blow of the wind but a forceful and continuos one. Gladden Fields = Kurjenmiekkojen kenttä - "Iris field". But here I think the translator has been pretty much the genius. The Finnish name for the Iris plant is "cranesword" (kurjen - crane's & miekka - sword). So if Tolkien was thinking of Gladiolus plant here as well as the latin word for a sword then it is a nice marriage indeed... To sleep now. Nice thread Lommy!
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
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09-14-2007, 02:52 AM
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Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 35
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Quote: "Samvěd (Samwise) Křepelka [I](meaning "quail". By the way, what the heck does "Gamgee" mean?"
As a person who owns a horse, I know that a gamgee is an old fashioned word for the cotton wrapping you place underneath a horse's leg bandages. Now I've just thought: Sam married Rosie Cotton. Any significance?
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The original and best Mel B |
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09-14-2007, 06:29 AM
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#6 |
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Silver in My Silent Heart
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the great beauty
Posts: 1,611
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Haha! Interesting!
I especially like Midgewater Marshes - Komáří močály (Midge Marshes). Komáří močály sounds like "Mosquitos dipped" in Russian the way I read it. Unfortunately/fortunately, I have read the books only in English, so no Russian or anything from me (Although it wouldn't matter even if I had read them in Russian as the new translation doesn't have changed names.  )EDIT: Though, there are four or more Russian versions with at least the three first ones having translated names. And the Ukrainian version sounds funny, I'll search for it. EDITEDIT (back to bad habits): Bilbo Torbins iz Torba-Na-Kruchi v Gobitonii = Bilbo Baggins from Bag End in Hobbiton. (I imagine "torba" as a non-too-fancy bag/sack and Torba-Na-Kruchi literaly means "a bag on a hook". Gorlum = Gollum. Peregrij "Pin" Tuk = Peregrin Took. Meriadok "Merri" Brendibok = Meriadoc Brandybuck. Argh... I couldn't find a site with all the names so I have to search the book on the net, which is a bit annoying as it's in Ukrainian. Last edited by Volo; 09-14-2007 at 09:14 AM. |
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09-14-2007, 11:06 AM
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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It seems I have forgotten a whole bunch of important names... :D
So what about...
Gollum - Klonkku or Middle-Earth - Keski-Maa or Orc - örkki ...? Some others... Grima Wormtongue - Grima Kärmekieli (Käärme is "snake" in Finnish, so no worms here, but I think Kärmekieli sounds much better than Matokieli, which would be the literal translation of Wormtongue.) Leaflock - Lehvähapsi ("Lehvä" is an old-fashioned word that means leaf and "hapsi" does not actually translate as lock, rather as a tuft of thin hair.) Skinbark - Karppunahka ("Nahka" means skin and "karppu"... well it doesn't mean anything per se (as far as I know), but it conveys the feel/air of something old and wrinkled/creased... It's also notably close to "kaarna" which means bark.) Ent - entti Entwife - entvaimo Enting - enttinen Huorn - huorni Goldberry - Kultamarja Tom, Bert & William - Tom, Bertti & Viljami (What is curious here is that William the Troll shares the first name with ... Barliman Butterbur! I think this is because Viljami would be the Finnish version of William and Viljami just rhymes prefectly with Voivalvatti (Butterbur) and is extraordinary and old-ish enough to replace Barliman.) Rosie Cotton - Ruusa Tölli Ted Sandyman - Ted Hiesuli Mr. Underhill - Herra Alismäki Mount Doom - Tuomiovuori Ettenmoors - Jättijängät Westfold - Länsimantu Icebay of Forochel - Forochelin jäälahti Iron Mountains - Rautavuoret Blue Mountains - Sinivuoret Helm's Deep - Helmin syvänne Hornburg - Ämyrilinna Dunharrow - Dunharg (This is a weird case, since "dunharg" or even part of it doesn't mean anything in Finnish , it is a very non-Finnish word actually. I guess the name has been changed - unlike all other Rohirric names - just to prevent it from sounding too modern English.) The Finnish translation was made by Kersti Juva. The translation is widely appreciated in Finland and in my opinion, it's a masterpiece. It flows naturally and the translator has been creative with the names. This is a remarkable achievement, especially as this was one of the first, if not the first, novel translations she made. Nowadays she's quite old and one of the most respected translators in Finland. Legate and Volo - those are very interesting, though I'm quite confident my mental images of how those words are pronounced are fatally wrong. I can very easily see Shelob as Odula (what a creepy name, though sounds like some latin term for some biological thing ), Weathertop as Větrov and Leaflock as Listovlas. When Rivendell (which is Rivendell in Finnish, by the way) is called Roklinka it feels like emphasising the merry Elves in The Hobbit and the cliffs/rocks that shield the valley. Those impressions, I think, are only formed on the sound of the word. Calling Treebeard Stromovous is another matter... it doesn't quite fit my mental image... "stromovous" sounds like some big and ugly carnivorous thing...
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
Last edited by Thinlómien; 11-26-2008 at 05:27 AM. |
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09-14-2007, 12:06 PM
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Fading Fëanorion
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: into the flood again
Posts: 2,911
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Great thread, Lommy!
Let me add my share of German names (far from complete, just the ones I found interesting): The Fellowship Frodo Baggins (Underhill) ~ Frodo Beutlin (Unterberg) (Beutel=bag. Just like in English, one would expect there to be a 'g' after the 'n', which is also omitted in the German translation) Samwise Gamgee ~ Samweis Gamdschie Meriadoc (Merry) Brandybuck ~ Meriadoc (Merry) Brandybock Peregrin (Pippin) Took ~ Peregrin (Pippin) Tuk Gandalf Aragorn (Strider) ~ Aragorn (Streicher) (Streicher doesn't mean much, but it reminds one of Landstreicher=vagabond, which I think is slightly disrespectful )Legolas Greenleaf ~ Legolas Grünblatt Gimli son of Glóin ~ Gimli Glóinssohn (not sure why they changed this, it makes it sound Scandinavian) Boromir Other people Barliman Butterbur ~ Gerstenmann Butterblüm Barrow-wight ~ Grabwicht Bill Ferny ~ Lutz Farnrich (the pony Bill is also called Lutz) Goldberry ~ Goldbeere Gríma Wormtongue ~ Gríma Schlangenzunge (like in Finnish, Gríma has the tongue of a snake over here) Grishnákh ~ Grischnách Lobelia Sackville-Baggins ~ Lobelia Sackheim-Beutlin Old Man Willow ~ Alter Weidenmann Quickbeam ~ Flinkbaum Rose Cotton ~ Rosie Kattun Shadowfax ~ Schattenfell Sharkey ~ Scharker Shelob ~ Kankra (a Kanker is a sort of spider and the 'ra' makes it sound feminine. I think this is not a good translation of the name. The sounds of the two are just too different) Ted Sandyman ~ Timm Sandigmann Thórin Oakenshield ~ Thórin Eichenschild Treebeard ~ Baumbart Witch King ~ Hexenkönig Geographic names Bag End ~ Beutelsend Bagshot Row ~ Beutelhaldenweg Barrow-downs ~ Hügelgräberhöhen Buckland ~ Bockland Dead Marshes ~ Totensümpfe Dunharrow ~ Dunharg Grey Havens ~ Graue Anfurten Helm's Deep ~ Helms Klamm Hobbiton ~ Hobbingen Lonely Mountain ~ Einsamer Berg Middle-earth ~ Mittelerde Mirkwood ~ Düsterwald Misty Mountains ~ Nebelgebirge Mount Doom ~ Schicksalsberg Rivendell ~ Bruchtal Shire ~ Auenland Weathertop ~ Wetterspitze Westernesse ~ Westernis Various geographic names Ashen Mountains ~ Aschengebirge Brandy Hall ~ Brandyschloss (which makes it Brandy Castle) Brandywine ~ Brandywein Brown Lands ~ Braune Lande Bucklebury ~ Bockenburg Bywater ~ Wasserau Crickhollow ~ Krickloch Dale ~ Thal Deadmen's Dike ~ Totendeich Dimrill Dale ~ Schattenbachtal Entwash ~ Entwasser Ettenmoors ~ Ettenöden Gap of Rohan ~ Pforte von Rohan Gladden Fields ~ Schwertelfelder Glittering Caves ~ Glitzernde Grotten Hollin ~ Hulsten Isenmouthe ~ Isenmaul Lake Evendim ~ Abendrotsee Loudwater ~ Lautwasser Michel Delving ~ Michelbinge Midgewater Marshes ~ Mückenwassermoore Mirrormere ~ Spiegelsee Old Forest ~ Alter Wald Redhorn ~ Rothorn Stonewain Valley ~ Steinkarrental Wellinghall ~ Quellhall Things that don't fit elsewhere Dwarf ~ Zwerg Easterling ~ Ostling Elf ~ Elb (this is interesting, since the word "Elf" exists in German as well. As far as I know, Tolkien himself suggested this change, so that, at least in German, people wouldn't be reminded of fairy-tale Elves) Fallohides ~ Fahlhäute Harfoots ~ Harfüße Neeker-breeker ~ Niiikerzriiiker (now, this one is just terrible  )Oliphaunt ~ Olifant Ringwraith ~ Ringgeist Southron ~ Südländer Stoors ~ Starre Wizard ~ Zauberer All these names are from the second translation, which is said to be the worse one (but how could I have known back then?). Maybe there are differences to the old one. |
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09-14-2007, 01:19 PM
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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The Fellowship's names in Finnish can't seem to merge with the hobbits' image in my mind, but I think it's caused by the fact that one is used to hear familiar sounds in the hobbit's names, considering the Shire "home". But...
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And the places I would certainly like to visit are Sumuvuoret and especially Hämypuron laakso. That's not just visiting Misty Mountains or Dimrill Dale, this is something more. I'm not sure if it is understandable, but let's say it like this: if I ever came there, these places would be, most probably, real. I have very clear image in my mind; of Hämypuron laakso with the stone of Durin and the crown of stars in the lake, and the cloudy heights of Sumuvuoret all around... And calling a warg "hukka" is just too brutal. I won't be happy, during a walk in wilderness, if I were assailed by a pack of hukkas Whatever it is. But it conjures in my mind the image of something living in Australian bushes.Quote:
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All right, let's make an agreement - we choose a neutral ground in Middle-Earth, far enough from the "civilised" lands (the best would be Dagorlad or some desert in Far East), and we'll make a reservation there for the most horrible monsters. For starters, we'll move all stromovouses and hukkas there...
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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09-14-2007, 04:52 PM
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Flame of the Ainulindalë
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves
Posts: 9,308
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The translations may look like just slight diversions from English but they actually sound very ancient Finnish at the same time. Maybe Tolkien was once again picking these from the Finnish phonemes? ~~*~~ Thanks Mac for the German translations! Even with my lousy-German knowledge - one course in the Uni about ten years ago - I do thikn I was able to appreciate some of the translations. I found especially nice the names like (from ones I understand what the German words actually mean) the following: Old Man Willow ~ Alter Weidenmann Shadowfax ~ Schattenfell Thórin Oakenshield ~ Thórin Eichenschild - These just sound nice to my ear. I don't know why... Barrow-downs ~ Hügelgräberhöhen - might look terrible but when pronounced is quite pleasant, awoking ideas of the Alps to me... Hobbiton ~ Hobbingen -ahh, that's just the cute way... Misty Mountains ~ Nebelgebirge Mount Doom ~ Schicksalsberg - Sadly one might think Hitler could have resided in both of these places but they still sound quite grand... Dwarf ~ Zwerg - that's so short and pithy. The dwarwes have to be Zwergs when they are not "kääpiöitä"! Fallohides ~ Fahlhäute Ringwraith ~ Ringgeist - Like from the operas of Wagner married with 19th century German idealism - and looking at the subjects they just could be that... 
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... Last edited by Nogrod; 09-14-2007 at 04:59 PM. |
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12-07-2008, 05:07 PM
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Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
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And on the whole I think that the Finnish translation gives it a very Middle-Earth-ish feel.
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Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place
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03-29-2011, 09:07 PM
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Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,410
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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09-14-2007, 10:22 AM
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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But if you could look at the Ukrainian translations, it would be nice - or anyone else having any input...
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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09-14-2007, 11:33 AM
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#14 |
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Silver in My Silent Heart
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the great beauty
Posts: 1,611
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(I'm not sure how to pronounce Ukrainian letters and how to write the pronounsations in English.)
Лист роботи Мелкіна/List raboti Melkina - Leaf by Niggle (book) Мелкін/Melkin - Niggle Бикорик/Bykoryk - Bullroarer (byk - bull) Могильники/Mogylniki - Barrow-Downs (mogyla - tomb) Підкопаю/Pidkopaju - Underhill (pidkopaju - dig (like in "I will dig a bit")) Блукач/Blukach - Strider (wanderer) Грайливий Поні/Grailivij Poni - Prancing Pony (playful pony) Барил Барбарис/Baril Barbaras - Barliman Butterbur More later, maybe in this same post. EDIT: About Shelob being Odula: Does "odula" mean something or is there some mythological spider-creature of a similar name as in Hobb's newest trilogy there is a spider-shaped god called Orandula. Last edited by Volo; 09-14-2007 at 11:39 AM. |
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03-31-2011, 02:20 AM
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#15 |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In Eldamar beside the walls of Elven Tirion
Posts: 551
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I just want to ask...has anyone heard of a Lord of the Rings translation in Hindi? I've seen several Potter books in Hindi, Urdu, even bleeding TAMIL, but not a single Tolkien book in any of those languages!
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