The Council of Elrond

[Finduilas]

I have seen the Council mentioned in many threads, where it didn't belong, so I thought I may as well create a thread devoted to it alone.

You are welcome to discuss any part of the Movie council, but I will start off by saying (and asking your opinions on) the following:

Didn't it seem as if the Council of Elrond wasn't any council at all? In the book, they talk of many things

Not all that was spoken and debated in the Council need now be told. Much was said of events in the world outside, especially in the South, and much in the wide lands east of the Mountians...

Now I'm not saying they should have everything that was in there. It would have been hard to do the Council correctly, or accurately, because that would have created a few more story threads, which they felt they didn't have time for, and would have been hard to explain. But they could have had more of the talk of the Ring. After all, many ways were talked over, such as throwing it in the sea, giving it to Bombadil, and I'm sure using it was mentioned. In the movie, everyone was told no one could wield it so it must be destroyed, and as it couldn't be destroyed by "any craft we here possess" that it would have to be taken to Mount Doom. They argued for a bit, but really, it wasn't... well, satisfactory.

And that part where they all blow up at each other...!

I hope that some of the problems that have been brought up on other threads will be here discussed.

-- Finduilas

P.S. Who were the two elves on either side of Elrond? His sons? Glorfindel?

[Sauron the White]

Much of the news that was imparted in the book version was imparted in other places such as the prologue of the Last Alliance. There is no way that any filmmaker could have sustained audience interest for the length of time it would have taken for all the various talking heads to tell their story and their contributions to the history of the ring had the book been "faithfully" translated to the screen. 25 minutes or more of narrative exposition woud have killed the film dead in its tracks.

[Thinlómien]

What's troubling me is why there are so many Men and Dwarves in the movie council. What are they doing there? Who are they? If anyone could explain this, I'd be grateful

[Finduilas]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Much of the news that was imparted in the book version was imparted in other places such as the prologue of the Last Alliance. There is no way that any filmmaker could have sustained audience interest for the length of time it would have taken for all the various talking heads to tell their story and their contributions to the history of the ring had the book been "faithfully" translated to the screen. 25 minutes or more of narrative exposition woud have killed the film dead in its tracks.

Yes, yes. But don't you think that they could have had less arguement and more debate?

As I said, I don't think that they should have had everything in there. As a reader it is hard to get through it(or was a few years ago) and in a movie it would be... I guess it depends on how they did it. I don't blame them a bit for shortening it, but I don't like how they shortened it.

Also, does anyone have an explaination for how in middle earth did Boromir know that Aragorn son of Arathorn was the heir of Isildur?

Unless you can find the other people in the credits, I have no clue who they are.
In the books it says...

Elrond was there, and severel others were seated in silence about him. Frodo saw Glorfindel and Gloin; and in a corner alone Strider was sitting... Elrond drew Frodo to a seat by his side, and presented him to the company...

So not many names are meantioned.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

It's quite true that there's nothing more deadly for a film than to shoot a bunch of people sitting around talking for anything more than a very brief time. Neither PJ nor a qualified director could have shot JRRT's chapter as written- indeed, Tolkien barely pulled it off in prose.

Still, that's no excuse for having the Council devolve into a childish shouting match (nor for having Boromir recognize the name 'Aragorn').

[Knight of Gondor]

Many of the names are matched with faces on the Quintessential Website for Lord of the Rings images.

Another key change was that Elrond said everyone had been summoned. (Denethor confirmed this in TTT:EE by saying Elrond was calling a council.) Yet in FotR (book), Elrond stated that they were not summoned by any Elf, but rather came together by fate/destiny/providence.

I agree with Finduilas, I don't like how they shortened it, though I expected them to shorten it. When I first started the books, that chapter bogged me down for a while. Now, it's one of my favorites because it takes all of the history of the Ring and binds it together, and contains so much of the other mythology and lore of Middle-Earth in it.

I too agree that it was kind of silly to erupt in a big fight like they did.

[Sauron the White]

Part of making a serious film is to create moments of drama. Perhaps Jackson felt that the eventual declaration by Frodo to take the Ring was more dramatic if preceded by a moment of vigorous debate which degenerated into arguing. Frodo saying he will take the ring and reaction of Gandalf to those words puts an end to the loud bickering and puts a more dramatic feel of peace to the events.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Part of making a serious film is to create moments of drama. Perhaps Jackson felt that the eventual declaration by Frodo to take the Ring was more dramatic if preceded by a moment of vigorous debate which degenerated into arguing. Frodo saying he will take the ring and reaction of Gandalf to those words puts an end to the loud bickering and puts a more dramatic feel of peace to the events.

Although I would have loved to see more included in The Council, I agree here. There is no denying that it is very dramatic when you hear Frodo yell "I will take it!" and you see Gandalf's face turn from anger to compassion.

[Boo Radley]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Much of the news that was imparted in the book version was imparted in other places such as the prologue of the Last Alliance. There is no way that any filmmaker could have sustained audience interest for the length of time it would have taken for all the various talking heads to tell their story and their contributions to the history of the ring had the book been "faithfully" translated to the screen. 25 minutes or more of narrative exposition woud have killed the film dead in its tracks.

Yeah. I have to agree with you on this one.
Of course the scene won't sit well with many Tolkien-o-philes, and yes, we all have our own ideas of how we could have made this scene better or explained this segment of the story more fully, but bottom line -- I think PJ did an outstanding job, putting the story on film.
And I also liked the part when they all began shouting and arguing over one another and then Frodo, the one person who saw what needed to be done and chose to do it, stepped forward.
To me, that was a wonderful moment in the film.