Reputation Redux - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mithalwen · 08-13-2007, 01:03 PM

While it is probably just as well that the "Reputations" thread with its 1,490 posts (and yes I know I was responsible for a good proportion of them) cannot be bumped up since it had become overly self-congratulatory and speculatory (I hope I contributed less on those scores), I think a baby was thrown out with the bath water.

If this is inappropriate, I am sure the powers that be will replace it with something that is but I cannot find any guidance on this matter in FAQ and I know of Downers (not me as it happens)who have received anonymous neg reps which have crossed the boundary of "disapproving of a post" and have been on a continuum varying from unkind to downright spiteful.

I am not against neg-rep per se - I use it from time to time and most of us deserve the odd slap on the wrist now and then even if it is to shake us out of complacency. While disapproval may be interpreted subjectively and some people my feel that it includes things that they disagree with as well as things that are less contentious: spam, advertising, off topic, etc, it surely does not cover personal attacks to which the recipient has no way to respond.

Please find hereafter various pertinent extracts from the early pages of the old thread:

"... the idea is to rate the post, not the member. Your rating of the post, postive or negative, will affect that members reputation up or down. As reputations change, the Reputation messsage changes.

Please don't abuse the Reputation system. Don't use it as a way to play games or disrespect each other. Instead, use it to give your true opinion of the posts you rate. In doing so, you will give people a better idea "The BW

"It just seems pointless to me to leave anonymous ratings/comments for a person. I've always thought a person should step up and take responsibility for his opinions of the actions of others". Piosenniel

"Reputations aren't for "major" problems with others' posts. It's just for pointers, positive feedback, and general comments - simply "Hey, I like how you said..." or "Maybe you would consider trying to...". It's not a way to confront members you are experiencing problems with or anything - that should be handled through others means (as always, by notifying a moderator)". Legolas

"• Did I leave a comment with Reputation I gave to someone else? If you give someone Reputation, positive or negative, leave a comment. Don't be cowardly or lazy and leave it blank. Tell them what you liked (or disliked) about it. Don't leave them in the dark. It is sometimes very dark here in the Barrow.
• Am I being fair? Did my buddy deserve the good Reputation I just gave him, or am I just helping a friend out. Did I give someone a negative Reputation because their post was bad (in my opinion), or because I am mad at them? Make sure you give Reputations because of the post you are reading, and not because of the poster. Again, leave a comment. "
BW

"Be positive instead of negative unless someone is really misbehaving".BW

So far so clear. The only ambiguity is in these comments:

Also, for those of you who get negative reputations given, please don't write to me asking for an investigation. So far, everyone that has contacted me with a concern has each had a grand total of one (1) bad reputation with a point value of -1. This is nothing to panic about. The reputations system is a wonderful tool, and if you doubt me, just sort the Members List by Reputation and you will see how accurate it is.

Thanks
BW

(Psst: if you find that an urgent reason to complain to the Wight, the bad reputation might have been quite accurate) Sharku,

While it is fair enough that it is unfair to burden mods because you are piqued at the loss of a few rep points, they might well inhibit those with just cause "contacting a moderator", because they don't want to waste their time, (certainly the Downers I referred to earlier probably come in to that category and so, I unsolicited do it for them!). I don't post this to be self righteous - I know I am not blameless in the (mis)use of the Rep system as the stats show

but it cannot harm any of us to think before we hit that button and maybe really ruin someone's day. Of course it shouldn't matter what some anonymous person thinks of us, we should " Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." but there are real people behind the screen names with real feelings and if you don't have the courage of your convictions enough to put your name to your comments, if you don't in effect want to say it to their face - maybe you shouldn't say it at all?

Thinlómien · 08-13-2007, 01:18 PM

I can only second what you said.

Rikae · 08-14-2007, 09:30 AM

And I third it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

there are real people behind the screen names with real feelings and if you don't have the courage of your convictions enough to put your name to your comments, if you don't in effect want to say it to their face - maybe you shouldn't say it at all?

Absolutely right.

If one actually wants to change someone's opinions or behavior for benevolent reasons, I would think that one ought to be willing to engage in a dialogue (via PM, for instance). Anonymous "sniping" doesn't accomplish anything positive - it only hurts people.
Furthermore, when the beliefs or actions they criticize aren't Downs related, but personal; anonymous neg-repping is still more uncalled for and immature. If a person isn't doing anything to offend you or the Downs community in general, "live and let live".

alatar · 08-15-2007, 10:47 AM

Sounds like the same issue resides elsewhere due to the anonymity of the web, as noted here.

Mithalwen · 02-06-2008, 02:13 PM

to feel the need to bump this up but it seem there is a need for the reminder.

The reputation system is not for punishing people who have different beliefs or opinions to your own.

Also a reminder that many Downers are not posting in their first language and may not always use the most felicitous form of words. And some words may have different significance in different countries even where English is the first language.

If you have a problem with something someone has said why not try a PM -or at least sign your rep? Often people post something (knowing exactly what they mean) not realising that someone realising that someone can read it with a completely different "tone of voice".

For example, I once was neg repped for posting something on the lines of :
"well at least I got something right" . I had made some factual error in part of a previous post and had posted it meaning "at least I got SOMETHING right" to express relief that I hadn't been completely wrong. Only after the anonymous (of course) neg rep did I realise it could be read as "at least I got something right" and seeming to express superiority over another poster. With that perspective the neg rep was just and to be taken on the chin but if I had known whom I had upset at least I could have explained that I had intended to self-deprecate not to sneer...

Nogrod · 02-06-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Also a reminder that many Downers are not posting in their first language and may not always use the most felicitous form of words. And some words may have different significance in different countries even where English is the first language.

I couldn't agree more with this. I've myself found this a most annoying problem. Add to that the fact that online one can't accompany what one says with all the bodylanguage and facial expressions one can when talking to someone in a real situation.

So let's just be easy around here.

08-13-2007, 01:03 PM	#1
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Reputation Redux While it is probably just as well that the "Reputations" thread with its 1,490 posts (and yes I know I was responsible for a good proportion of them) cannot be bumped up since it had become overly self-congratulatory and speculatory (I hope I contributed less on those scores), I think a baby was thrown out with the bath water. If this is inappropriate, I am sure the powers that be will replace it with something that is but I cannot find any guidance on this matter in FAQ and I know of Downers (not me as it happens)who have received anonymous neg reps which have crossed the boundary of "disapproving of a post" and have been on a continuum varying from unkind to downright spiteful. I am not against neg-rep per se - I use it from time to time and most of us deserve the odd slap on the wrist now and then even if it is to shake us out of complacency. While disapproval may be interpreted subjectively and some people my feel that it includes things that they disagree with as well as things that are less contentious: spam, advertising, off topic, etc, it surely does not cover personal attacks to which the recipient has no way to respond. Please find hereafter various pertinent extracts from the early pages of the old thread: "... the idea is to rate the post, not the member. Your rating of the post, postive or negative, will affect that members reputation up or down. As reputations change, the Reputation messsage changes. Please don't abuse the Reputation system. Don't use it as a way to play games or disrespect each other. Instead, use it to give your true opinion of the posts you rate. In doing so, you will give people a better idea "The BW "It just seems pointless to me to leave anonymous ratings/comments for a person. I've always thought a person should step up and take responsibility for his opinions of the actions of others". Piosenniel "Reputations aren't for "major" problems with others' posts. It's just for pointers, positive feedback, and general comments - simply "Hey, I like how you said..." or "Maybe you would consider trying to...". It's not a way to confront members you are experiencing problems with or anything - that should be handled through others means (as always, by notifying a moderator)". Legolas "• Did I leave a comment with Reputation I gave to someone else? If you give someone Reputation, positive or negative, leave a comment. Don't be cowardly or lazy and leave it blank. Tell them what you liked (or disliked) about it. Don't leave them in the dark. It is sometimes very dark here in the Barrow. • Am I being fair? Did my buddy deserve the good Reputation I just gave him, or am I just helping a friend out. Did I give someone a negative Reputation because their post was bad (in my opinion), or because I am mad at them? Make sure you give Reputations because of the post you are reading, and not because of the poster. Again, leave a comment. " BW "Be positive instead of negative unless someone is really misbehaving".BW So far so clear. The only ambiguity is in these comments: Also, for those of you who get negative reputations given, please don't write to me asking for an investigation. So far, everyone that has contacted me with a concern has each had a grand total of one (1) bad reputation with a point value of -1. This is nothing to panic about. The reputations system is a wonderful tool, and if you doubt me, just sort the Members List by Reputation and you will see how accurate it is. Thanks BW (Psst: if you find that an urgent reason to complain to the Wight, the bad reputation might have been quite accurate) Sharku, While it is fair enough that it is unfair to burden mods because you are piqued at the loss of a few rep points, they might well inhibit those with just cause "contacting a moderator", because they don't want to waste their time, (certainly the Downers I referred to earlier probably come in to that category and so, I unsolicited do it for them!). I don't post this to be self righteous - I know I am not blameless in the (mis)use of the Rep system as the stats show but it cannot harm any of us to think before we hit that button and maybe really ruin someone's day. Of course it shouldn't matter what some anonymous person thinks of us, we should " Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." but there are real people behind the screen names with real feelings and if you don't have the courage of your convictions enough to put your name to your comments, if you don't in effect want to say it to their face - maybe you shouldn't say it at all? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 08-13-2007 at 01:46 PM.

08-13-2007, 01:18 PM	#2
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	I can only second what you said. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

08-15-2007, 10:47 AM	#4
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Sounds like the same issue resides elsewhere due to the anonymity of the web, as noted here. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

02-06-2008, 02:13 PM	#5
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	It is rather depressing.. to feel the need to bump this up but it seem there is a need for the reminder. The reputation system is not for punishing people who have different beliefs or opinions to your own. Also a reminder that many Downers are not posting in their first language and may not always use the most felicitous form of words. And some words may have different significance in different countries even where English is the first language. If you have a problem with something someone has said why not try a PM -or at least sign your rep? Often people post something (knowing exactly what they mean) not realising that someone realising that someone can read it with a completely different "tone of voice". For example, I once was neg repped for posting something on the lines of : "well at least I got something right" . I had made some factual error in part of a previous post and had posted it meaning "at least I got SOMETHING right" to express relief that I hadn't been completely wrong. Only after the anonymous (of course) neg rep did I realise it could be read as "at least I got something right" and seeming to express superiority over another poster. With that perspective the neg rep was just and to be taken on the chin but if I had known whom I had upset at least I could have explained that I had intended to self-deprecate not to sneer... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 02-06-2008 at 03:54 PM.