Ironic Characters in Tolkien - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 07-30-2007, 09:47 AM

Garm and Farmer Giles were ironic characters in Farmer Giles of Ham. Supposed to be heroes, Garm was a coward and Giles was an opportunist who got lucky; his mare was the real hero as Tolkien said.

Question: Are there other characters in other stories by Tolkien that are ironic? Who are they? How are they ironic? Why does Tolkien cast them that way? And if, by chance, there are no ironic characters in LotR or The Hobbit or any other of his writings, why not?

Mithalwen · 07-30-2007, 11:32 AM

Well surely Bilbo is ironic, the bourgeois Baggins turns burglar....

littlemanpoet · 07-30-2007, 07:00 PM

I expected ironic figures to pop up in "The Hobbit". What about his more serious works?

MatthewM · 07-30-2007, 10:42 PM

I would say Gollum is ironic. His whole purpose is to get back the One Ring, and when he finally gets it, he falls off into the lava of Mt. Doom and destroys it, thus fulfilling the Quest.

Morthoron · 07-30-2007, 10:52 PM

I would guess that in a sense Saruman would be considered ironic, having become that which he was sent out to destroy, complete with a ring on his finger and an army of Orcs.

Estelyn Telcontar · 07-31-2007, 12:43 AM

The character I thought of immediately as I read this thread is the herb-master in "The Houses of Healing", RotK. He knows so much theoretically, but he cannot give the practical help that is needed = the athelas. Aragorn and Gandalf's comments are humorous and bitingly sarcastic:

Quote:

Thereupon the herb-master entered. 'Your lordship asked for kingsfoil, as the rustics name it,' he said; 'or athelas in the noble tongue, or to those who know somewhat of the Valinorean....'

'I do so,' said Aragorn, 'and I care not whether you say now asëa aranion or kingsfoil, so long as you have some.'

....

'Then in the name of the king, go and find some old man of less lore and more wisdom who keeps some in his house!' cried Gandalf.

It sounds to me like Tolkien is even making a rather snide comment on his own profession - of what practical use is the science of linguistics?!

Perhaps Ioreth can be included as another ironic character; she is the one who is looked down upon as an "old wife", yet her knowledge is coupled with a practical wisdom that plays a small yet vital part in the development of the story.

07-30-2007, 09:47 AM	#1
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Ironic Characters in Tolkien Garm and Farmer Giles were ironic characters in Farmer Giles of Ham. Supposed to be heroes, Garm was a coward and Giles was an opportunist who got lucky; his mare was the real hero as Tolkien said. Question: Are there other characters in other stories by Tolkien that are ironic? Who are they? How are they ironic? Why does Tolkien cast them that way? And if, by chance, there are no ironic characters in LotR or The Hobbit or any other of his writings, why not?

07-30-2007, 11:32 AM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Well surely Bilbo is ironic, the bourgeois Baggins turns burglar.... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-30-2007, 10:42 PM	#4
MatthewM Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 628	I would say Gollum is ironic. His whole purpose is to get back the One Ring, and when he finally gets it, he falls off into the lava of Mt. Doom and destroys it, thus fulfilling the Quest. __________________ "Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

07-30-2007, 10:52 PM	#5
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,509	I would guess that in a sense Saruman would be considered ironic, having become that which he was sent out to destroy, complete with a ring on his finger and an army of Orcs. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

07-30-2007, 07:00 PM	#3
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	I expected ironic figures to pop up in "The Hobbit". What about his more serious works?