how would Tolkien feel about fanfic or RPGs? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Fordim Hedgethistle · 06-26-2007, 10:51 AM

Inspired by this discussion, I present you with the following question:

How would Tolkien feel about fanfiction and RPGs?

Morthoron · 06-27-2007, 08:53 AM

As I stated in that locked-thread-that-shall-not-be-named, it seems based on Tolkien's letters that perhaps early in his career the thought of enhancing Middle-earth through others' works may have been acceptable or even welcomed. Tolkien did indeed indulge in joint projects with his schoolmates and later with the Inklings (Lewis in particular); however, as he grew older and more curmudgeonly it is apparent that the whole idea became anathema to him (his distaste for Zimmerman's film being obvious), to the point where, near the end of his life, he only trusted his son, Christopher, to maintain the lore.

Therefore, it seems reasonable that he would cordially despise Middle-earth fan-fiction or RPG's (considering it perhaps flippant), just as he would more than likely be appalled by P.J. Jackson's rendering of LotR.

Hilde Bracegirdle · 06-29-2007, 10:59 AM

It's hard to know how he'd react. But I suspect since he was so exacting of himself that he might avoid reading other people's work, unless of course it came highly recommended. And if it was up to his standards, I do think he would truly enjoy it.

Yes, I'm going to be one of those people who think there need to be another option.

Ataralasse · 07-06-2007, 01:04 PM

I picked the first, because I thought he'd like it to be continued, but now that I think about it, there's some Bad Stuff out there based on his works ... :-|

Kuruharan · 07-09-2007, 01:05 PM

Hypocritically enough, I have to believe that he wouldn't have liked it very much...but maybe I'm feeling guilty for the hand that I have had in the various incarnations of REB.

Andsigil · 07-10-2007, 03:40 AM

RPGs are nothing more than the adult version of children running through the woods, shouting "I'm Aragorn!" and swinging a toy sword at a tree. And who could be angry at that?

Fordim Hedgethistle · 07-10-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andsigil

RPGs are nothing more than the adult version of children running through the woods, shouting "I'm Aragorn!" and swinging a toy sword at a tree. And who could be angry at that?

The tree.

Thinlómien · 07-10-2007, 07:52 AM

And the Ents.

Kitanna · 07-10-2007, 10:57 AM

I find it very hard to say how Tolkien would feel about these RPGs and fanfics. Because there are many RPGs and fanfictions out there that are not only well-written, but keep the facts and histories of Middle-Earth as they were written. Everything is left in the canon Tolkien established. Perhaps Tolkien would be flattered by these lovers of his work who took their time to keep the facts straight and write something for fun because they love Middle-Earth.

On the other hand you run into RPGs and fanfictions that completely bend things. They don't follow the books so much as they follow Peter Jackson's movies and the events added there (such as the Elves at Helm's Deep, Arwen on the verge of death, etc.) Many that follow those lines are nothing more than the writer expressing their crush for an actor in the film. Which is all fine and dandy, but would probably be frowned upon by Tolkien.

Having seen way more fanfics and RPGs that pretty much destroy the canon of Middle-Earth I'm going to have to say Tolkien would probably prefer only his son or others authorized editors should carry on his work.

Lord Halsar · 07-15-2007, 11:21 PM

[QUOTE=Kitanna;527710]I find it very hard to say how Tolkien would feel about these RPGs and fanfics. Because there are many RPGs and fanfictions out there that are not only well-written, but keep the facts and histories of Middle-Earth as they were written. Everything is left in the canon Tolkien established. Perhaps Tolkien would be flattered by these lovers of his work who took their time to keep the facts straight and write something for fun because they love Middle-Earth./QUOTE]

I agree to that. I would expect him to take a great liking to this site aswell.
Though, i believe he would probably cause another 9-11 if he saw some of the parody-videos that are on the internet. I myself can't beleive some of the stuff that people have put out.

ninja91 · 07-13-2007, 03:35 PM

Tolkien was a generous and fair man, to say the least. Now, that does not mean that he would fully endorse fanfic and publish it as part of his world, but I do think that he created it so people could enjoy it in different ways.

William Cloud Hicklin · 07-13-2007, 08:39 PM

As I posted on the ex-thread, when Tolkien was confronted with fanfic he got very angry indeed and referred it to A&U's lawyers (he called the author a "young a-s"). I can't believe that the leader right now is Option 1, what JRRT called his "deplorable cultus," and ascribed to young people of culturally impoverished backgrounds getting "quite drunk" on his writings.

William Cloud Hicklin · 07-14-2007, 09:28 PM

The former- I believe the unhappy person in question proposed a 'sequel.' The latter, unlike the former, is far beyond copyright protection; and, after all, it can hardly be claimed that Tolkien invented Elves, Dwarves, and dragons! Derivative and ripoffish as it is, Shannara is not exactly Middle-earth, so Brooks can get away with it (not that I'd insult you by putting your work down on that level!)

ninja91 · 07-15-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

The former- I believe the unhappy person in question proposed a 'sequel.' The latter, unlike the former, is far beyond copyright protection; and, after all, it can hardly be claimed that Tolkien invented Elves, Dwarves, and dragons! Derivative and ripoffish as it is, Shannara is not exactly Middle-earth, so Brooks can get away with it (not that I'd insult you by putting your work down on that level!)

Do you know whether his anger was directed at people writing stories directly correlated with his works, using his lands, cultures, and history, or was it directed at people writing stories that include merely his races (i.e. elves, dwarves) like authors such as Christopher Paolini and myself? (and many others here, I assume)

I dont want the Fathers of Fantasy working against me...

William Cloud Hicklin · 07-15-2007, 07:18 PM

I think the order and embedded quotes of the last couple of posts has gotten screwed up.

Thinlómien · 07-19-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja91

Do you know whether his anger was directed at people writing stories directly correlated with his works, using his lands, cultures, and history, or was it directed at people writing stories that include merely his races (i.e. elves, dwarves) like authors such as Christopher Paolini and myself? (and many others here, I assume)

Elves and dwarves were not his own. They existed in folk tales long before Tolkien himself was born. And they exist in tales after his death. Tolkien fashioned the archetype Elves and Dwarves for modern fantasy, just as - for example - Finns of old times fashioned Kullervo who Tolkien took to his own and named Túrin (of course changing him like the modern authors have changed his Elves). So I doubt he would disapprove. He would see it as recycling good old ideas, just like he did when making up his wonderful stories.

View Poll Results: How would the Professor feel about fanfic?
He'd like the idea that his work was being carried on by those who loved it.	19	43.18%
He would want only his son or another authorised editor to oversee all Middle-earth stories.	10	22.73%
He'd tear his hair out with rage and disgust.	10	22.73%
He wouldnt' have cared.	5	11.36%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

06-26-2007, 10:51 AM	#1
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	how would Tolkien feel about fanfic or RPGs? Inspired by this discussion, I present you with the following question: How would Tolkien feel about fanfiction and RPGs? __________________ Scribbling scrabbling. Last edited by Fordim Hedgethistle; 06-26-2007 at 10:54 AM.

06-27-2007, 08:53 AM	#2
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,509	As I stated in that locked-thread-that-shall-not-be-named, it seems based on Tolkien's letters that perhaps early in his career the thought of enhancing Middle-earth through others' works may have been acceptable or even welcomed. Tolkien did indeed indulge in joint projects with his schoolmates and later with the Inklings (Lewis in particular); however, as he grew older and more curmudgeonly it is apparent that the whole idea became anathema to him (his distaste for Zimmerman's film being obvious), to the point where, near the end of his life, he only trusted his son, Christopher, to maintain the lore. Therefore, it seems reasonable that he would cordially despise Middle-earth fan-fiction or RPG's (considering it perhaps flippant), just as he would more than likely be appalled by P.J. Jackson's rendering of LotR. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

07-06-2007, 01:04 PM	#4
Ataralasse Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 20	I picked the first, because I thought he'd like it to be continued, but now that I think about it, there's some Bad Stuff out there based on his works ... :-\| __________________ This was unexpected and rather difficult. There was some scattered clapping, but most of them were trying to work it out to see if it came to a compliment. Last edited by Ataralasse; 07-06-2007 at 01:04 PM. Reason: It needed to be done.

07-09-2007, 01:05 PM	#5
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,591	Hypocritically enough, I have to believe that he wouldn't have liked it very much...but maybe I'm feeling guilty for the hand that I have had in the various incarnations of REB. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

06-29-2007, 10:59 AM	#3
Hilde Bracegirdle Relic of Wandering Days Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: You'll See Perpetual Change. Posts: 1,480	It's hard to know how he'd react. But I suspect since he was so exacting of himself that he might avoid reading other people's work, unless of course it came highly recommended. And if it was up to his standards, I do think he would truly enjoy it. Yes, I'm going to be one of those people who think there need to be another option.

07-10-2007, 03:40 AM	#6
Andsigil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin Posts: 733	RPGs are nothing more than the adult version of children running through the woods, shouting "I'm Aragorn!" and swinging a toy sword at a tree. And who could be angry at that? __________________ Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness.

07-10-2007, 07:52 AM	#8
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	And the Ents. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

07-10-2007, 10:57 AM	#9
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	I find it very hard to say how Tolkien would feel about these RPGs and fanfics. Because there are many RPGs and fanfictions out there that are not only well-written, but keep the facts and histories of Middle-Earth as they were written. Everything is left in the canon Tolkien established. Perhaps Tolkien would be flattered by these lovers of his work who took their time to keep the facts straight and write something for fun because they love Middle-Earth. On the other hand you run into RPGs and fanfictions that completely bend things. They don't follow the books so much as they follow Peter Jackson's movies and the events added there (such as the Elves at Helm's Deep, Arwen on the verge of death, etc.) Many that follow those lines are nothing more than the writer expressing their crush for an actor in the film. Which is all fine and dandy, but would probably be frowned upon by Tolkien. Having seen way more fanfics and RPGs that pretty much destroy the canon of Middle-Earth I'm going to have to say Tolkien would probably prefer only his son or others authorized editors should carry on his work. __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

07-15-2007, 11:21 PM	#10
Lord Halsar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL! Posts: 77	[QUOTE=Kitanna;527710]I find it very hard to say how Tolkien would feel about these RPGs and fanfics. Because there are many RPGs and fanfictions out there that are not only well-written, but keep the facts and histories of Middle-Earth as they were written. Everything is left in the canon Tolkien established. Perhaps Tolkien would be flattered by these lovers of his work who took their time to keep the facts straight and write something for fun because they love Middle-Earth./QUOTE] I agree to that. I would expect him to take a great liking to this site aswell. Though, i believe he would probably cause another 9-11 if he saw some of the parody-videos that are on the internet. I myself can't beleive some of the stuff that people have put out. __________________ My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...

07-13-2007, 08:39 PM	#12
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,321	As I posted on the ex-thread, when Tolkien was confronted with fanfic he got very angry indeed and referred it to A&U's lawyers (he called the author a "young a-s"). I can't believe that the leader right now is Option 1, what JRRT called his "deplorable cultus," and ascribed to young people of culturally impoverished backgrounds getting "quite drunk" on his writings. Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 07-13-2007 at 08:42 PM.

07-14-2007, 09:28 PM	#13
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,321	The former- I believe the unhappy person in question proposed a 'sequel.' The latter, unlike the former, is far beyond copyright protection; and, after all, it can hardly be claimed that Tolkien invented Elves, Dwarves, and dragons! Derivative and ripoffish as it is, Shannara is not exactly Middle-earth, so Brooks can get away with it (not that I'd insult you by putting your work down on that level!) __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

07-15-2007, 07:18 PM	#15
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,321	I think the order and embedded quotes of the last couple of posts has gotten screwed up. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.