***spoiler Warning*** - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elmo · 05-22-2007, 07:30 AM

Does anyone as but me find it slightly annoying that Tolkien includes so many spoilers in his work, like 'my heart foretells... yadda yadda' The worst one I find is the one when Feanor dies and he sees Thangorodrim and with the foresight of death knows no force of the Noldor could defeat them. I thought of that quote throughout the Nirnaeth and it destroyed any suspense for me whether they were going to win it or not.

On another I know Tolkien cannot be blamed for it because he's dead but is it really necessary for the Chapter title for the chapter in which Beleg dies, in 'The Children of Hurin', to be 'The Death of Beleg'. If I was a first time reader that would have completly spoiled it for me, having previously thought Beleg and Turin would have been merry friends forever...

The Might · 05-22-2007, 07:36 AM

Actually you're right about that, but today the style in which most writers write is different ten the one used 50 years ago.
If you take a look at more modern books you find this, since they usually try to keep interested.
I agree with the examples, though in the case of Beleg you are still surprised that it is Turin that accidentally kills him.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 05-22-2007, 07:40 AM

I suppose it comes from the style of the tale. It's a history, rather than a thriller. Like anyone reading the sagas would already know that the characters were dead, and having chapters named 'The Death of so-and-so' will make for easy reference.

There's at least one of those in The Lord of the Rings too, when the author talks about Merry, I believe, gaining a scar which lasted until the end of his days.

Bêthberry · 05-22-2007, 08:35 AM

Some authors, rightly or wrongly, write with the presumption, to say nothing of gall, impudence and temerity, that their books will be reread. Tolkien appears to belong to this crowd and fortune seems to have favoured him.

alatar · 05-22-2007, 09:26 AM

When we go to the theater/cinema, before the main attraction, we are bombarded seemingly for hours with movie trailers that show bits of coming attractions. Maybe these chapter titles are just the textual form of the same? Whet the appetite a bit?

"Things sound bad for this group of Nine, as the chapter title is, 'The Breaking of the Fellowship,' but exactly how does it happen, me wonders?"

At least we are spared the LotR Chapter title, in place of "The Shadow of the Past," "The Shadow of the Past and How Frodo will Accomplish his Mission and Defeat Sauron, and the Nazgul Never Really do Much."

MatthewM · 05-22-2007, 09:46 PM

I like the titles Tolkien gave his chapters. They are defined and each significant, and each for me at least evoke certain emotions and pictures that I latch on to that chapter or point in the story. Like most said, there are the questions that leave suspense as to why things happened producing the title Tolkien gave.

Orominuialwen · 05-22-2007, 11:17 PM

I recall reading somewhere that Tolkien originally wanted to call RotK The War of the Ring, because he thought The Return of the King gave away too much of the plot. His publishers thought that Return of the King worked better, though. So perhaps Tolkien shared some of your concers about giving too much of his plots away?

05-22-2007, 07:30 AM	#1
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	*spoiler Warning* Does anyone as but me find it slightly annoying that Tolkien includes so many spoilers in his work, like 'my heart foretells... yadda yadda' The worst one I find is the one when Feanor dies and he sees Thangorodrim and with the foresight of death knows no force of the Noldor could defeat them. I thought of that quote throughout the Nirnaeth and it destroyed any suspense for me whether they were going to win it or not. On another I know Tolkien cannot be blamed for it because he's dead but is it really necessary for the Chapter title for the chapter in which Beleg dies, in 'The Children of Hurin', to be 'The Death of Beleg'. If I was a first time reader that would have completly spoiled it for me, having previously thought Beleg and Turin would have been merry friends forever... __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering. Last edited by hewhoarisesinmight; 05-22-2007 at 07:48 AM.

05-22-2007, 07:36 AM	#2
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Actually you're right about that, but today the style in which most writers write is different ten the one used 50 years ago. If you take a look at more modern books you find this, since they usually try to keep interested. I agree with the examples, though in the case of Beleg you are still surprised that it is Turin that accidentally kills him. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

05-22-2007, 07:40 AM	#3
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	HWAIM.... 'Mon the Dons! I suppose it comes from the style of the tale. It's a history, rather than a thriller. Like anyone reading the sagas would already know that the characters were dead, and having chapters named 'The Death of so-and-so' will make for easy reference. There's at least one of those in The Lord of the Rings too, when the author talks about Merry, I believe, gaining a scar which lasted until the end of his days. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

05-22-2007, 08:35 AM	#4
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,997	Some authors, rightly or wrongly, write with the presumption, to say nothing of gall, impudence and temerity, that their books will be reread. Tolkien appears to belong to this crowd and fortune seems to have favoured him. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

05-22-2007, 09:26 AM	#5
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	When we go to the theater/cinema, before the main attraction, we are bombarded seemingly for hours with movie trailers that show bits of coming attractions. Maybe these chapter titles are just the textual form of the same? Whet the appetite a bit? "Things sound bad for this group of Nine, as the chapter title is, 'The Breaking of the Fellowship,' but exactly how does it happen, me wonders?" At least we are spared the LotR Chapter title, in place of "The Shadow of the Past," "The Shadow of the Past and How Frodo will Accomplish his Mission and Defeat Sauron, and the Nazgul Never Really do Much." __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

05-22-2007, 09:46 PM	#6
MatthewM Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 628	I like the titles Tolkien gave his chapters. They are defined and each significant, and each for me at least evoke certain emotions and pictures that I latch on to that chapter or point in the story. Like most said, there are the questions that leave suspense as to why things happened producing the title Tolkien gave. __________________ "Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

05-22-2007, 11:17 PM	#7
Orominuialwen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: Umbar, but before the corsairs took over. (Ave Maria University, FL, USA) Posts: 632	I recall reading somewhere that Tolkien originally wanted to call RotK The War of the Ring, because he thought The Return of the King gave away too much of the plot. His publishers thought that Return of the King worked better, though. So perhaps Tolkien shared some of your concers about giving too much of his plots away? __________________ Gone for lentSeeyou at Easter! (And on Sundays too, maybe.)