Lord Melkor Rightful Master of the Fates of Arda

I would like to start a thread to glorify Lord Melkor, and his faithful and free servants, against the thralls of the Valar, usurpers and enslavers of the peoples of Arda, whom the rightful ruler and greatest of the Vala, would liberate.
Anyone who has the strength of character inherent in themselves to recognize such strength that is within the servants of Melkor, Sauron, the Wraiths, the Warrior Kings of Glorious and free Harad, could by posting qoutes and scenes from the mythology here at this thread, and let us discuss what indeed be lies and deceit, and so thus the true Ruler of Arda be known.
I shall start it off, and add to it as my time allows, and would like to develope this theme into a sub-forum all it's own.


And He said: 'The Valar have possessed themselves of the land where there is no death; and they lie to you concerning it, hiding it as best they may, because of their avarice, and their fear lest the Kings of Men should wrest from them the deathless realm and rule the world in thier stead. And though, doubtless, the gift of life unending is not for all, but only for such as are worthy, being men of might and pride and great lieage, yet against all justice is it done that this gift, which is his [MINE] due, should be witheld from the King of Kings, Ar-Pharazon, mightiest of the sons of Earth, to whom Manwe alone can be compared, if even he. But great kings brook no denials, and take what is thier due."

Now that's inspiring. I swear it's as if He were speaking right now in this room, to me.

Now the lightnings increased and slew men upon the hills, and in the fields, and in the streets of the city; and a fiery bolt smote the dome of the temple and shore it asunder, and it was wreathed in flame. But the temple itself was unshaken, and Sauron stood there upon the pinnacle and defied the lightning and was unharmed; and in that hour men called him a God and did all that He would.

Give great praise to Lord Sauron! What Power! What dignity! To stand in defiance of the Slaves of Eru the Accursed!
For Lord Sauron lives I say. He has come again into the world to once again vie for the freedom of the human race. I am his herald and messanger, and he has liberated me so that I have tasted freedom and Lo! they lie who say that He is a Tyrant wreathed in shadow, for I have come to reveal freely the open path to the recovery of your souls. He is among us. I bring you his Gos Spell.

[Well......that's pretty far out, it just rolls off my tongue you know, but I'm going to go for it.] May the wisdom and majesty of Melkor guide and direct me.

[Elmo]

I've been saying for ages we should worship Melkor, Lord of All, Giver of Freedom. This thread may be of some interest to you. My claiming it was just tongue in cheek was just to avoid being burnt at the stake but Melkor is man's saviour.

[alatar]

I can understand how you may think as you do, but for me, I'm more like Treebeard when it comes to 'sides.' Sure, the Valar are all that you write (and maybe more), but your King limps from the bite of an elvish blade, couldn't keep Three Jewels from an Elvish lass and her human ragtag beau, and would have been spider food hadn't it been for Eru's intervention (sending the Balrogs to save this Dark Lord's skin), so can't say that I buy into the PR/hype, as did Ar-Pharazôn the Golden.

Manwë, I pegged here, and you can make of that what you will.

My money's on, incidently, Folco Boffin, as to me, he's at the heart of everything...

[The 1,000 Reader]

Like Alatar, I don't really give in to hype. I make my own opinions. In my opinion, Morgoth was just a selfish idiot who went from a grumpy guy at first to a horribly bland creature that wanted everybody dead for pretty much no reason whatsoever. Ungoliant probably would have killed him, and he barely beat Fingolfin. At the very least however, he was the original Dark Lord. Sauron's motives seemed even worse than Melkor's, and he appeared even less intelligent and powerful. Luthien and Huan made Sauron their *****, and his Ring always failed him. Also, I don't see the fall of Numenor as Sauron's doing: I always thought that Numenor was stuck down a dark road when Ar-Pharazon came into power, and Sauron being promoted would have allowed Ar-Pharazon to show him off as a trophy more often. It would be like saying "Oh, that's Sauron. He's a Maia. The Aniur are supposed to be much greater than us men, but hey, him being here working for me says otherwise."

[The Might]

Ok, now Sauron I can understand...world domination is ok, but Melkor...why would you ever serve someone who would eventually destroy you?

Hence his endeavour always to break wills and subordinate them to or absorb them into his own will and being, before destroying their bodies. This was sheer nihilism, and negation its one ultimate object: Morgoth would no doubt, if he had been victorious, have ultimately destroyed even his own 'creatures', such as the Orcs, when they had served his sole purpose in using them: the destruction of Elves and Men. Melkor's final impotence and despair lay in this: that whereas the Valar (and in their degree Elves and Men) could still love 'Arda Marred', that is Arda with a Melkor-ingredient, and could still heal this or that hurt, or produce from its very marring, from its state as it was, things beautiful and lovely, Melkor could do nothing with Arda, which was not from his own mind and was interwoven with the work and thoughts of others: even left alone he could only have gone raging on till all was levelled again into a formless chaos. And yet even so he would have been defeated, because it would still have 'existed', independent of his own mind, and a world in potential. ~ Morgoth's Ring

Really...how could you serve the guy?

[The 1,000 Reader]

Also note that Sauron's rule would probably look like Africa now or Iraq when Saddam ruled.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

Also note that Sauron's rule would probably look like Africa now or Iraq when Saddam ruled.

Seriously, I've got to ask - what's up with Africa? It's a beautiful place, and the cradle of mankind.

Now if you'd said Rotherham I'd have understood.

"Some years ago, the Lord of the Black Land wished to PURCHASE horses from us at a GREAT PRICE, but we refused him . . . ."

[The Might]

Umm...I'm not sure I understand what you're saying
You do realise the quote I have given was written by Tolkien, and if not he, then who else would know Melkor?
Btw, there is a post editing function, in case you wish to add anything to your post.

Originally Posted by alatar

I can understand how you may think as you do, but for me, I'm more like Treebeard when it comes to 'sides.' Sure, the Valar are all that you write (and maybe more), but your King limps from the bite of an elvish blade, couldn't keep Three Jewels from an Elvish lass and her human ragtag beau, and would have been spider food hadn't it been for Eru's intervention (sending the Balrogs to save this Dark Lord's skin), so can't say that I buy into the PR/hype, as did Ar-Pharazôn the Golden.

Manwë, I pegged here, and you can make of that what you will.

My money's on, incidently, Folco Boffin, as to me, he's at the heart of everything...

You see how quickly these empty slaves betray their masters? Whenever it suits their purpose, they will portray Luthien, beautiful thief, whom yes, even Melkor and Sauron adore and honor and speak no ignoble words, as a princess more beautiful and powerful than all the daughters of the world, and Beren, foremost among the champions of men, and then without hesitation demote them to the level of Elvish lass and Beren as "ragtag" prostitute.
Because there is no fundamental value in truth among them.
For none honor Beren more than Melkor; whom has never spoken any defilement of an advisary that has proven their worth merely by having the courage to confront Him. They dwell as equals and friends now in paradise.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Neithan Tol Turambar

For none honor Beren more than Melkor; whom has never spoken any defilement of an advisary that has proven their worth merely by having the courage to confront Him. They dwell as equals and friends now in paradise.

So, having no 'earthly' accomplishments about which to boast, Melkor has fallen to name-dropping. He was 'owned' by Beren and Luthien, and I doubt that Melkor and the Camlost ever shook hands, even the one that remained, in this life or the thereafter (assuming that Melkor could even wiggle a hand free of his chains). Does Melkor know Paris Hilton too?

By the by, I've glad that this topic has arisen as it's given me a new perspective on Melkor. Assuming Eru 'begat' in some way Melkor, technically that could mean that Eru is Melkor's mommy. So, while many of the other Valar are married, Melkor sits alone, living in Angband, as I now see it, in his mother's basement! From there he dreams and schemes, and in the end it's all for not. When, perchance, a beautiful maiden stops by, he can only look. Her singing makes him impotent..I mean, ineffective for a time, and she walks out with the guy that that brought her to the dance (which, as we've read, is now a friend of the Dark Lord, because that's as close as he's going to get to fair Tinuviel). Wow! And all this time I thought the guy scary, but now realize how sad he was.

Anyway, that may be a harsh way of saying that Melkor had no or lost his creative powers as life became all about him. What does this say about giving one's children too much? Spoiled is a really fitting word here.

And I'm not even going to bring up that Melkor had to chain Húrin to the mountainside just for some company...

But I do understand the point that Melkor did serve a purpose, as without him, the First Age may be summed up to be "The Elves had tea; Men showed up and made coffee." Boring!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Like a nasty, hateful teenager.....with superpowers! Effects will not be pleasant.

[The Might]

1. That's not such a bad idea at all, I like Pippin...but I can't change my name, sorry.

2. "If I can speak from experience, when inventing a character, especially a villain, it is difficult to get one's mind into the right position."
I disagree, look at Alien, he's evil and doesn't change a bit

3. Hmm...I'm not so sure about that Alatar. I don't think Eru really made them pairs, I just think nobody wanted to be together with Melkor. Anyway, I am pretty certain I once say a quote where it read that he had a hidden love for Varda, which would even more justify his hatred for Manwe. What I can't understand is why it necessarily happened to him...

Also, note that the original 14 Valar were 7 Male and 7 Female (somehow it feels wrong to use such terms when talking about spirits), only after the arrival of Tulkas this balance was changed.

Originally Posted by alatar

So, having no 'earthly' accomplishments about which to boast, Melkor has fallen to name-dropping. He was 'owned' by Beren and Luthien, and I doubt that Melkor and the Camlost ever shook hands, even the one that remained, in this life or the thereafter (assuming that Melkor could even wiggle a hand free of his chains). Does Melkor know Paris Hilton too?

By the by, I've glad that this topic has arisen as it's given me a new perspective on Melkor. Assuming Eru 'begat' in some way Melkor, technically that could mean that Eru is Melkor's mommy. So, while many of the other Valar are married, Melkor sits alone, living in Angband, as I now see it, in his mother's basement! From there he dreams and schemes, and in the end it's all for not. When, perchance, a beautiful maiden stops by, he can only look. Her singing makes him impotent..I mean, ineffective for a time, and she walks out with the guy that that brought her to the dance (which, as we've read, is now a friend of the Dark Lord, because that's as close as he's going to get to fair Tinuviel). Wow! And all this time I thought the guy scary, but now realize how sad he was.

Anyway, that may be a harsh way of saying that Melkor had no or lost his creative powers as life became all about him. What does this say about giving one's children too much? Spoiled is a really fitting word here.

And I'm not even going to bring up that Melkor had to chain Húrin to the mountainside just for some company...

But I do understand the point that Melkor did serve a purpose, as without him, the First Age may be summed up to be "The Elves had tea; Men showed up and made coffee." Boring!

...but to Urin[hurin] he gave a measure of vision, so that much of those things that befell his wife and [daughter] he might see and be helpless to aid, for magic held him in that high place. "Behold!" said Melko, "the life of [your daughter] shall be accounted a matter for tears wherever elves and men are gathered for the telling of tales."; but Hurin said: "at least none shall pity [her] for this, that [she] had a craven for father."

[davem]

I don't know if this thread was intended to provoke anyone, but I don't have a problem if you want to read it that way - we had a long discussion about this kind of approach over on Novices & Newcomers 'Seems like Someone's Rooting for the Wrong Side'. Personally I'd find it difficult to sustain this approach to Morgoth/Sauron, but if it seems right to you, & makes sense, then go for it. Its fiction. Certainly its not the approach Tolkien would have wanted you to take to the story.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Originally Posted by Second of the Nine

I used to be a rabid supporter of Melkor and Sauron and their ilk, but not anymore. Why? Mainly because they were a lot of selfish ********.

Let's go back to Melkor's theme. Now, once I would have said this was a grand expression of creativity; Melkor was putting his rights of sub-creation to the test, being true to himself and not a slave. But really, playing that theme was just plain wrong. Let's think: creator vs. creation, who knows better? Now as much as you want to romanticise his rebellion, the fact of the matter remains plain: Melkor's will have mistakes in it while Eru's will not; or, assuming Eru is not perfect but only very powerful, it will logically have fewer mistakes because of his higher position.

Then, let's look at the results: Valinor vs. Utumno/Angband. Where would you rather live, honestly? Honestly now. We have our fun on this board talking about Elf-roasts and whatnot, but in all seriousness the realms of darkness were not nice places. They were filled with violence, filth, destruction and degradation. Where would you rather live, the Shire or Mordor? The Shire is a lovely place filled with kind folk who enjoy nothing more than eating and giving one another presents. Mordor is a militaristic society that runs on slave labor and is ruled by a megalomaniac.

The point of the above comparison is, who REALLY had a better plan for the world? The followers of Eru, or the followers of Melkor? His "rights" to follow his own plan notwithstanding, Melkor was a bloody evil idiot who, judging from the sort of places he produced, could not possibly have had anyone's best interests in mind, and he should have just sat down, shut up and played along with the rest.

Seriously, this is my favorite quote that's related to Tolkien.

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

Seriously, this is my favorite quote that's related to Tolkien.

I'll ignore the parasite 1000 reader, like a dog has fleas he clings to the traitorous Second of the Nine, who then turns around and defies Melkor? This turn coat doesn't even know who they are. Certainly not Second of the Nine, a powerful and cunning master of stategy.
It is obvious that you have no understanding of the time before time so harken! and learn.
Who was it that made Melkor?
Who was it that gave unto him powers greater than any other Vala?
And whilst your new friends among whom Manwe is the chief, whom you will no doubt betray as soon as you did Melkor, aped only such themes as were programmed into them by Eru, Melkor above all, being kindled with the Flame Imperishable, was able to create themes of his own, and yea, through, but apart from the design of Eru was obligated by the His very existence, and by the Flame Imperishable, which is greater than Eru, to give birth to the mighty themes of His own making, whereby solely the glory of the music and the unfolding of the world derives it's glory. For what would the world be without Melkor's Theme? There would be no Lord of the Rings, after whom the mythology is named! It is not called Gandalf, wondering craven and lunitic, It is not called Ragged wildman strider, sneaker among the shadows, Lord of fifty beggers, It is not called Elrond live as far from the one to whom he slanders as he can, who has not dared come forth for 500 years, NO! It is named after the impetus of the whole - The Lord of the Rings! Sauron, emissary of Melkor! Whom even your own hermit king Mithrandir proclaims to be the true and only Lord of the Rings! With out Melkor, and his faithful and true servants Gandalf and you would have no reason for even existing. It is Melkor which gave you this, thankless and craven traitors you be! Melkor is the spring from which you flow and you curse him for it because it is not truly Melkor whom you hate but you yourselves, because in Melkor, your father, you see clearly that birth and strength of which Eru has denied you. You are unworthy. But because of your arrogance and folly you worship Eru! The one who open claims to have created Melkor and given him the divine inspiration to go forth into Arda, free from constraint, to do as he has done, to make themes of his own?
And yet, if Eru speak true, then the responsibility for all of what you claim as evil has it's foundation in Eru alone, but do you apply the responsibility to him? No! Thouest dare to blame Melkor? Who has spoke the truth all along? That he hath made valleys, and Eru's slaves filled them; Melkor hath made mountains, and Eru hath cast them down, burying under them and the sea all those poor innocent and unknowing peoples whom Eru doesn't even bother to mention! Because he knowith them not, For Melkor is their father, and givith them peace, and a life apart from the conflicts of the West, and yet, the Vala cannot let that be, and must drag these unknowing peasants into a fight of which they have no part or orgin, to make tools of them. Out of Pity for the Second Born of the Tyrant Eru, who defies the will of the Flame Imperishable, and gives death to those beings to whom in the design of Melkor should have life just such as they, being kindled with the Flame Imperishable; Melkor hath made a land apart, wherein these peoples might dwell in peace, and ever increase in power and freedom. A land wherein there is pleasant darkness, and the light of stars to comfort, and so the Vala cast upon them a bright light, which blinds the eyes of even their own slaves, so that the arrows of the blood-stained deserters might find sure mark. I will say no more.

[Thenamir]

Originally Posted by Neithan Tol Turambar

I will say no more.

Promises, promises. We can only hope.

Originally Posted by Neithan Tol Turambar

I would like to start a thread to glorify Lord Melkor, and his faithful and free servants, against the thralls of the Valar, usurpers and enslavers of the peoples of Arda, whom the rightful ruler and greatest of the Vala, would liberate.
Anyone who has the strength of character inherent in themselves to recognize such strength that is within the servants of Melkor, Sauron, the Wraiths, the Warrior Kings of Glorious and free Harad, could by posting qoutes and scenes from the mythology here at this thread, and let us discuss what indeed be lies and deceit, and so thus the true Ruler of Arda be known.
I shall start it off, and add to it as my time allows, and would like to develope this theme into a sub-forum all it's own.


And He said: 'The Valar have possessed themselves of the land where there is no death; and they lie to you concerning it, hiding it as best they may, because of their avarice, and their fear lest the Kings of Men should wrest from them the deathless realm and rule the world in thier stead. And though, doubtless, the gift of life unending is not for all, but only for such as are worthy, being men of might and pride and great lieage, yet against all justice is it done that this gift, which is his [MINE] due, should be witheld from the King of Kings, Ar-Pharazon, mightiest of the sons of Earth, to whom Manwe alone can be compared, if even he. But great kings brook no denials, and take what is thier due."
Now that's inspiring. I swear it's as if He were speaking right now in this room, to me.

Now the lightnings increased and slew men upon the hills, and in the fields, and in the streets of the city; and a fiery bolt smote the dome of the temple and shore it asunder, and it was wreathed in flame. But the temple itself was unshaken, and Sauron stood there upon the pinnacle and defied the lightning and was unharmed; and in that hour men called him a God and did all that He would.

Give great praise to Lord Sauron! What Power! What dignity! To stand in defiance of the Slaves of Eru the Accursed!
For Lord Sauron lives I say. He has come again into the world to once again vie for the freedom of the human race. I am his herald and messanger, and he has liberated me so that I have tasted freedom and Lo! they lie who say that He is a Tyrant wreathed in shadow, for I have come to reveal freely the open path to the recovery of your souls. He is among us. I bring you his Gos Spell.

[Well......that's pretty far out, it just rolls off my tongue you know, but I'm going to go for it.] May the wisdom and majesty of Melkor guide and direct me.

Acturally, Sauron said this to Ar-Pharazon, Melkor didnt