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04-02-2007, 09:45 AM | #1 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chozo Ruins.
Posts: 421
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More than meets the Eye
In The Shadow of the Past in FOTR, Gandalf tells Frodo that Sauron left his old fortress in Dol Guldur for his ancient stronghold in Mordor, Barad-Dur. Does this mean possibly that Sauron, even during the War of the Ring still had a physical form? There was no Eye at Mirkwood, but an evil necromancer. Since he left Dol Guldur and left for Mordor, was there a physical form? Was there a actual Sauron that actually dwelt in the tower, aside from the Great Eye?
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04-02-2007, 10:05 AM | #2 | |
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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Yes, he had a body
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"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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04-02-2007, 10:22 AM | #3 | |
Laconic Loreman
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Raynor's correct, Tolkien uses 'The Eye' as a symbol and a metaphor not as an actual physical presense (as Jackson portrays in the movies).
In literature the symbol of 'The Eye' is used to show this all-watching, all-seeing, and always present force. For examples... In George Orwell's book 1984, the symbol of Big Brother is a giant eye...and Big Brother is the dominating government that knows everything and sees everything within it's country of Oceania. The Freemasons use the 'Eye of Providence' to symbolize God watching over and his protection. Also the Eygptians 'Eye of Horus' is similar to this. So the Eye can be associated not only with evil (dominating, all-seeing and control) but also with good (as in the form of protection). Tolkien actually first gives the symbol of the Eye to explain Morgoth: Quote:
So, Sauron does have a physical body during the War of the Ring, and The Eye is used as a symbol and metaphor. And when 'The Eye of Sauron' is mentioned it's used in passing to describe Sauron's omnipresense and control (and I think there is one time when Frodo had a vision of 'The Eye of Sauron'). But a vision isn't always reality.
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04-02-2007, 10:52 AM | #4 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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I might also add, that when Pippin was looking into the Palantír, he saw Sauron - and probably in physical form, judging from Pippin's style of description:
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-02-2007, 05:50 PM | #5 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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But...but...I thought that Gandalf said Sauron wasn't powerful enough without the Ring to take physical form?
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"Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring |
04-02-2007, 10:39 PM | #6 | |
Laconic Loreman
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Mathew, I think you might be confusing some lines with the movies. I know in the movies Gandalf says he can not yet take a physical form, but I don't remember that being in the books.
Raynor mentioned Gollum's remark (in The Black Gate is Closed) where Gollum remarks that Sauron had 'four fingers on his black hand; but that is enough.' Also there are several instances where there is a reference to Sauron coming...Legate mentioned Pippin's encounter with the palantir...'Then he came.' Another one that comes to mind is when Denethor says 'He will only come to triumph over me when all is won.' And... Quote:
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Fenris Penguin
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