soldiers available in ME

I read somewhere on this forum that Rohan had aproximately 20,000 men in cavalry and infantry after helms deep. I was curious as to how many soldiers other kingdoms and areas of ME had at the time
Good
-Gondor(bigger than rohan so maybe 40,000?)
-Mirkwood
-Lórien
-Rivendell(not many)
-Lindon(not many)
-Men of Dale
-Dwarves of Lonely Mountain
-Beornings(not many)
-Rangers of the North(30 of grey company, some left behind?)

Bad
-Sauron in Mordor and Don Guldur
-Saruman and Dunlendings
-Harad
-Khand
-Rhun
-Umbar
-various orcs of Misty Mountains

I'm not sure how many references are made in any of the books, but any information or estimates would be helpful. I'm just trying to get a scope for the forces available during the the war of the ring

[The Might]

I think it's very, very hard to say.
The only more correct numbers I know of are those from Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-earth, since they are based on certain quotes in the books. However clear numbers do not exist.
For example, it seems pretty clear that much more Men served Sauron, for example the slaves mentioned in LotR that work near the Sea of Nurnen...so exact numbers can't be given in this case
With the good guys it might be easier, but again only speculative numbers based on the books.

[goldfinger]

Actually if you read Christphers notes in the UT he says that the Rohirrim had around 12,000.

I have done a lot of research on this and I've come up with some figures (note. I did this through estimations of populations through military numbers mentioned in the UT, LotR and the Hobbit) that are quite interesting and I believe pretty close to being right on the mark.

Gondor: 28,000-30,000.

Rohan: 12,000.

Elves of Mirkwood: 3-4,000.

Lorien: 2-3,000.

Kingdom of Dale: 3-6,000.

Dwarves of the Iron Hills: 8-10,000.

Dwarves of Erebor: 4-6,000.

Lindon: 2-5,000

Evil

Mordor: 100-200,000

Rhun: 14-25,000

Harad: 30-40,000

Khand: 15-20,000

Goblins of the Misty Mts: 6-10,000

Dol Guldur: 8-10,000

Those are the ones that can be more easily estimated. Of the Beornings and Woodmen , it would be difficult to calculate since they are barely ever mentioned, but otherwise I think these numbers should be near if not spot on with the numbers.

[Kuruharan]

Dwarves of the Iron Hills: 8-10,000.

Dwarves of Erebor: 4-6,000.

I have to say I disagree with those. If anything it would be the reverse.

I also think that those numbers are too high. Maybe 4-6,000 might be okay for the Lonely Mountain, but the Iron Hills would be much lower than that.

[The Might]

I'd add also Isengard with ~ 10000 orcs

[goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I have to say I disagree with those. If anything it would be the reverse.

I also think that those numbers are too high. Maybe 4-6,000 might be okay for the Lonely Mountain, but the Iron Hills would be much lower than that.

I forgot to say that the Iron Hills numbers were taken from the time of the Hobbit. Thge Iron Hills was the most capable country in the North to stand in the way of Sauron at the time of the Hobbit, so I calculated that if the 500 that were at the Battle of Five Armies was just around five-ten percent of Dain's army then it would be around 5-10,000. So in a sense it is logical number.
Erebor's numbers were taken from a rough estimate of around 4- to 600,000 Dwarves living in the mountain, and just taking one percent of there population, Considering that active armies (aka trained career soldiers) throughout history have been from as small as less than one percent to as much as five 8 percent of the the population.

[The Might]

600.000 Dwarves were living there?

All this speculation is making me confused

[goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I have to say I disagree with those. If anything it would be the reverse.

I also think that those numbers are too high. Maybe 4-6,000 might be okay for the Lonely Mountain, but the Iron Hills would be much lower than that.

Before this comes to a bashing of me and my calculations, I encourage you to go read the Durin's folk in Appendix A, in the beginning of when it talks about Gandalf's worries about the North. It says:

"Among many cares he was troubled in mind by the perilous state of the North; because he knew then already that Sauron was plotting war, and intended to attack Rivendell. But to RESIST ANY ATTEMPT FROM THE EAST to regain the lands of Angmar and the northern passes in the mountains there were now ONLY THE DWARVES OF THE IRON HILLS"

Now Tolkien doesn't say Elves or Men but the Iron Hills. If at the time Dain could only muster a force of "500" Dwarves while Sauron could muster thousands, and the Elves of Mirkwood could muster more than a thousand, wouldn't it be the other way around?
So to me your statement makes no sense, because if what you were saying is so then the Elves should be much weaker than the Dwarves.
So why are you puzzled? obviously, the Iron Hills had a military superiority over the Elves.

About the Iron Hills. The Iron Hills was not an outpost at this time in history. around half of Durin's folk lived there, since most of those that survived Smaug went to the Iron Hills, except for those led by Thror, and those who still dwelt in the Ered Mithrin and elsewhere.

Why did Thror not take his people to the Iron Hills? I do not know for Tolkien didn't say, But would it matter if it was an outpost or not? He may have went elsewhere out of respect for his brother's lordom of the Hills or maybe it wasn't a desirable place for him to live or maybe he was such a proud king that he wanted to make it on his own, I don't know. But still would it matter if it were an outpost or not?

I haven't seen anywhere in Tolkiens works (which I haven't read all of yet) so far, that says that the Dwarves were very few. I think we as readers kind of just figured they were but, what it says is that they slowly increase as race, and when they do not have a secure dwelling are in danger of not having any reproduction.

Lastly, you wondered why I calculated the Iron Hills army at 8-10,000. Well I did it out of studying military patterns from real life and from the books. From them I figured if Durin's folk had an average population of 1,000,000 people throughout the the mid to late third age, and you broke it up I figured that the Iron Hills after Smaug was around 2-300,000 people and later around 3-500,000 (I will retract my calculation of 600,000). While Thorin had around 2-400,000 people in the Ered Luin (after his fathers capture) since his population was growing from the wandering Durin's folk . And of course we can't orget those wanderers and colonies in the Ered Mithrin and elsewhere which may have been in the tens of thousands.
So if the Iron Hills had from 1 to 5 percent of it men in the military it would come out to 5-10,000. For these are the percentages most militarys come from in almost every country on earth.

I hope this answers your questions and I'm sorry if my figures are proposterous to you and anyone else. I'm was just trying to think figuratively and logically.

I don't think anyone is, or meant to bash you or your figures. I think most of the estimates you came up with are very reasonable. While maybe the Iron Hill numbers are too high, there is no decisive answer and your guess is as good as any of ours. No hard feelings, we're all just trying to come up with figures from incomplete information.