Breaking of the World - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Celebdil · 02-02-2007, 05:04 PM

Hi all,

My question relates to this passage regarding Aragorn's death:

Quote:

Then a great beauty was revealed in him, so that all who after came there looked on him in wonder; for they saw that the grace of his youth, and the valour of his manhood, and the wisdom and majesty of his age were blended together. And long there he lay, an image of the splendour of the Kings of Men in glory undimmed before the breaking of the world.

Does anyone know what is meant by "the breaking of the world". My understanding is that when the "unfaithful" Numenorians sailed to the Undying lands, Eru "broke" the world in two, with one piece being Valinor and the other piece containing M-E. But that quote seems to indicate a second breaking will occur. Does Tolkien write anything about this second breaking? When will it occur and why?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-02-2007, 05:11 PM

I actually think the meaning of this part is "he looked like the Kings of Men looked before the breaking of the world", so it actually is referring to Númenor. However, I think there still might be more to say about it, but I don't feel competent enough to speculate wider about any other breakings. So I'll wait if anyone else contributes to this thread. I just wanted to add my little bit of knowledge when I could.

littlemanpoet · 02-02-2007, 10:20 PM

Well, it's obvious that the events that occurred in The Lord of the Rings are antediluvian, so the second breaking of the world obviously refers to the Biblical Flood.

......just kidding.....

Celebdil · 02-03-2007, 12:21 AM

Thanks Legate,

After reading it again, I think you're right. For some reason it sounded like he lay there for an age or so and then at last the world was broken again. But I think your interpretation makes much more sense. Thanks!

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-03-2007, 02:57 AM

Well, in the Silmarillion, there are lots of graves that "remained/not remained there until the world was changed" (but this was even before the Breaking of Beleriand), so I think if you have read this, no wonder that the part about Aragorn Elessar implies something similar.

The Sixth Wizard · 02-03-2007, 06:07 AM

This will sound very unproffessional, seeing as I have no idea where I heard this or a viable quote, but in one of the Lost Tales or something, Mandos makes a prophecy that on the day of the Final Battle Morgoth will find the way to break the Door of Night, will fight on the very plains of Valinor itself against every goodie ever made, versus every baddie ever made, and evil will be conquered forever. Turin Turambar will be the one to slay Morgoth, and Feanor will come back from the dead, aid Yavanna in restoring the Two Trees, and all Men and Elves will live together in harmony forever. (The Dwarves will aid in the restoration of Arda, as will the Ents).

But I think Tolkien scrapped this story eventually anyway, so I agree with Legate that it was referring to the pre-Numenor world, not the post-Gondor world.

02-02-2007, 05:11 PM	#2
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	I actually think the meaning of this part is "he looked like the Kings of Men looked before the breaking of the world", so it actually is referring to Númenor. However, I think there still might be more to say about it, but I don't feel competent enough to speculate wider about any other breakings. So I'll wait if anyone else contributes to this thread. I just wanted to add my little bit of knowledge when I could. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

02-02-2007, 10:20 PM	#3
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Well, it's obvious that the events that occurred in The Lord of the Rings are antediluvian, so the second breaking of the world obviously refers to the Biblical Flood. ......just kidding..... Last edited by littlemanpoet; 02-04-2007 at 08:35 PM.

02-03-2007, 02:57 AM	#5
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Well, in the Silmarillion, there are lots of graves that "remained/not remained there until the world was changed" (but this was even before the Breaking of Beleriand), so I think if you have read this, no wonder that the part about Aragorn Elessar implies something similar. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

02-03-2007, 12:21 AM	#4
Celebdil Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 17	Thanks Legate, After reading it again, I think you're right. For some reason it sounded like he lay there for an age or so and then at last the world was broken again. But I think your interpretation makes much more sense. Thanks!

02-03-2007, 06:07 AM	#6
The Sixth Wizard Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stuck under a rock in Valinor with Ar-Pharazon. Posts: 480	This will sound very unproffessional, seeing as I have no idea where I heard this or a viable quote, but in one of the Lost Tales or something, Mandos makes a prophecy that on the day of the Final Battle Morgoth will find the way to break the Door of Night, will fight on the very plains of Valinor itself against every goodie ever made, versus every baddie ever made, and evil will be conquered forever. Turin Turambar will be the one to slay Morgoth, and Feanor will come back from the dead, aid Yavanna in restoring the Two Trees, and all Men and Elves will live together in harmony forever. (The Dwarves will aid in the restoration of Arda, as will the Ents). But I think Tolkien scrapped this story eventually anyway, so I agree with Legate that it was referring to the pre-Numenor world, not the post-Gondor world.