Who were the men refusing the call of Gondor? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elmo · 01-20-2007, 07:33 AM

During the Council of Elrond Boromir says

Quote:

Only from Rohan now will any men ride to us when we call

What men other then the Rohirrim would have riden to GOndor before? None are mentioned anyhwere I can find. Maybe from Dale but I assumed they'd be too far away from Gondor to ride their. Maybe the Rangers but I can't imagine them riding in an army to help Gondor especially when they seem so few of them and they have to guard the whole of Eriador. Maybe Barliman would lead the Breemen? (that's a joke by the way)

Lalwendë · 01-20-2007, 07:52 AM

Basically all the Men scattered around Middle-earth who were not already completely under the yoke of Sauron (or Saruman, as is the case with the Dunlendings). And there must have been quite a lot of Men, not only in Dale but in other settlements, for example there were Men way up north around the ice bay of Forochel, and there must have been settlements to the south of the Shire with all that talk of 'squint-eyed Southerners'. Of course there were Rangers and remnants of Arnor.

But all these Men were not united in any kind of common cause against Sauron, they were fighting their own battles. The enemy must have known well about the concept of 'divide and conquer' - for example, send a few Orc bands up to harry those Men in the villages of Arnor and they'll be far too busy fighting for their own livelihoods to worry about Gondor facing an army 1,000 times as large.

Only Rohan really still had any formal bonds with Gondor, which was probably why Saruman was keen to destabilise what remained (which wasn't that much) of the old alliance.

Anyway, old Butterbur would have been a great asset in war. After all, everyone needs beer.

Elmo · 01-20-2007, 09:11 AM

then these men seem to have been written out of history for not coming to Gondor's aid during the war of the ring

maybe Barliman was invited but he forgot about the invitation

Lalwendë · 01-20-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hewhoarisesinmight

then these men seem to have been written out of history for not coming to Gondor's aid during the war of the ring

maybe Barliman was invited but he forgot about the invitation

Well, they do say that the victors write all the history books.

Elmo · 01-20-2007, 01:24 PM

it would have been a good story the Snowmen coming to Gondor's aid...
and I'd always assumed that the squinty eyed southerner was a Dunlander which are many leagues away from the Shire and I couldn't imagine them coming to Gondor's rescue.

Ghazi · 01-20-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hewhoarisesinmight

I'd always assumed that the squinty eyed southerner was a Dunlander

They might have been in part. I seem to recall Merry or Pippin saying they had seen many men of the same type at Isengard around the time the Ents attacked it. So they were probably some breed of goblin mixed with men.

yavanna II · 01-21-2007, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hewhoarisesinmight

it would have been a good story the Snowmen coming to Gondor's aid...
and I'd always assumed that the squinty eyed southerner was a Dunlander which are many leagues away from the Shire and I couldn't imagine them coming to Gondor's rescue.

I always thought Tolkien uses the fair-imaged people aiding the other fair people, and I couldn't imagine some "squinty-eyed southerner" riding to Gondor's aid, or any "good kingdom" in any case. Remember in the Sil, the Easterners were not that fair, and it was them (with the exception of Ulfang & Co) who betrayed the Noldor. And hey. Were there other "fair men" apart from the Rohirrim and the Dunedain?

01-20-2007, 07:52 AM	#2
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Basically all the Men scattered around Middle-earth who were not already completely under the yoke of Sauron (or Saruman, as is the case with the Dunlendings). And there must have been quite a lot of Men, not only in Dale but in other settlements, for example there were Men way up north around the ice bay of Forochel, and there must have been settlements to the south of the Shire with all that talk of 'squint-eyed Southerners'. Of course there were Rangers and remnants of Arnor. But all these Men were not united in any kind of common cause against Sauron, they were fighting their own battles. The enemy must have known well about the concept of 'divide and conquer' - for example, send a few Orc bands up to harry those Men in the villages of Arnor and they'll be far too busy fighting for their own livelihoods to worry about Gondor facing an army 1,000 times as large. Only Rohan really still had any formal bonds with Gondor, which was probably why Saruman was keen to destabilise what remained (which wasn't that much) of the old alliance. Anyway, old Butterbur would have been a great asset in war. After all, everyone needs beer. __________________ Gordon's alive!

01-20-2007, 09:11 AM	#3
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	then these men seem to have been written out of history for not coming to Gondor's aid during the war of the ring maybe Barliman was invited but he forgot about the invitation __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

01-20-2007, 01:24 PM	#5
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	it would have been a good story the Snowmen coming to Gondor's aid... and I'd always assumed that the squinty eyed southerner was a Dunlander which are many leagues away from the Shire and I couldn't imagine them coming to Gondor's rescue. __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.