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04-27-2002, 02:17 AM | #1 | ||||||
Deadnight Chanter
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Concerning Elf-friends
Well, how people do acquire title of an elf-friend?
General requisite is to be, well, friendly and of use to elves. In the first age title is applied to the whole peoples (three kindred of elf-friends), as well as in particular cases for those who were of great valour in prooving their friendship. In the second age the picture is much the same, but criteria is slightly different. Now we have particular p0ersons, who rended some service to elves, and whole peoples, who, maybe, haven’t seen an elf in their whole life, yet are considered elf-friends for the mere knowledge of the elven tongues: for the first case: Quote:
but, as was said above, the knowledge of Noldorin (or even Sindarin) is sufficient in the case: Quote:
And sometimes the title is even name for a political party, i.e “elendili” of Numenor But the most fully the requisite of language is expressed in FoTR Quote:
Quote:
So, thechnically, even evil person knowing Noldorin can acquire such a title? I think not, for, decency is required too: Quote:
As a conclusion: term “elf-friend” has two possible meanings: 1) somehow political, expressing general outlook of the person bearing the title. 2) inner, expressing state of his fea in the former sense title may be applied by the person himself, and even without any elf nearby, i.e Faramir and Eomer both fight against Dark Lord, But Faramir is an elf-friend, and Eomer is not, though neither is seen to have connections with elves (up to a moment) in latter sense the process like to a kind of initiation, the title is applied by an elf, usually is expressed by the verb “to name” and written with capital E (I name you an Elf-friend), and, most interesting of all, title in such sense implies change of inner state of a initiatd person. For Frodo, after being “elffriended” by Gildor, is described thus: Quote:
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04-27-2002, 11:25 AM | #2 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
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Hmm... very well thought-out topic. I'd never have been able to come up with all that.
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04-28-2002, 01:04 PM | #3 |
Animated Skeleton
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So, do you think that Frodo was actually changed after he was named Elf-friend by Gildor? (I'm very interested!)
~Airetalathwen
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04-29-2002, 10:11 AM | #4 | |||
Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,133
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Quote:
It goes like this. In the depths of Mordor while Frodo slept, Sam watched, then remembered and commented: Quote:
HerenIstarion-- Your knowledge of this subject is amazing. I can add one small thing, athough it simply comes from reading someone else's essay. Have you read "The Footsteps of Aelfwine" by Verlyn Flieger? It is published in Tolkien's Legendarium, Essays on the History of Middle Earth. This essay looks at a range of Tolkien's Elf-friends, those in the Lord of the Rings plus many who only appear in the History of Middle-earth. The former include Aragorn, Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam. The latter group focus on Aelfwine the Mariner and his alter ego Eriol the Mariner who are in the Book of Lost Tails; the time travel story figure, the Numenorean Elendil (Quenya for Elf-friend), and the later characters Alboin Errol and Alwin Lowdham and the latter's father Edwin Loudham; plus Smith of Wooten major and his mysterious grandfather. The essay argues that one important characteristic of an Elf-friend is to act as a link between the world of faery and the world of man. As Flieger explains, on some level, Tolkien saw himself as rediscovering an already existing myth, rather than creating a new story. There are many places in the Letters where Tolkien alludes to this, seeing revelation as a component of sub-creation. Now, in order to reveal a myth, it as to come from somewhere else. So the Elf-friend has one foot in the story and one foot outside of it. i.e. he acts as a link between the natural world and the world of faerie. The Elf-friend may act as a storyteller or singer in the book, revealing some of the existing mythology. For example, Frodo, Sam, and Aragorn present songs and stories which capture some of the earlier mythology. Or the Elf-friend may actually write down the myths themselves into another book to transmit the stories on. For example, Elendil is said to have written down his Elvish stories in a book, and the later Aelfwin is also said to possess such a book. Bilbo's Translations from the Elvish are presumed to be an extension or translation plus comments from these earlier sources. This is how the stories in the Red Book of Westmarch are produced and passed down to Tolkien. Tolkien himself then is framed as the overarching Elf-friend, since he takes the already existing Red Book (at least that's what he says!) and passes it on to us in an English translation of the Silm, Hobbit, and LoTR. He does the same thing as Elendil, Aelfwine, Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam-- just in a later time frame! I find this idea or literary device absolutely intriguing. In my opinion, you could even take this one step further. Let me show you what I mean by quoting the dedication to Tolkien's Legendarium: Quote:
[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]
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04-29-2002, 11:03 AM | #5 |
Guest
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I think that the title of "Elf-Friend" is reserved for those of an other race who are in good standing and service to the Elves. I do not think that it confers any kind of special mark or spiritual power, but is rather made to bolster the reputation of the individual to whom the title is confered and to, perhaps, assure that other Elves aid the individual should that person have a need.
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05-02-2002, 01:13 PM | #6 |
Deadnight Chanter
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I haven't said anything about power, but mark it leaves allright, and it is processed too solemnly to be mere assurance of stray elves help, whom, in case it left no mark, should take aforesaid person's claim of being an elf-friend upon his word. And it's rather odd to imagine person wandering about claiming: look at me, I'm an elf friend. The thing is somehow always guessed out all by itself, as in Goldberry's case. Anyway, elves are Good People, they will help anyone in dire need, or so I have heard [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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10-25-2002, 07:03 AM | #7 | |
Deadnight Chanter
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Quote:
[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]
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10-25-2002, 10:07 AM | #8 | |
Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,133
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I certainly agree with you! It's interesting. There are no women in Tolkien's stated list of Elf-friends, perhaps because a number of the key women in the tales are themselves Elves., i.e. Arwen, Luthien, Galadriel. Yet, although she is not specifically named as an Elf-friend, I wonder if Andreth does not fall in this category? Her love of Aegnor, her friendship with Finrod, the close ties of the house of Beor with the Elven kin--all these are suggestive. Moreover, her status as a wise woman means that she was involved in the preservation and transmission of lore, which was another prerequisite. A case could also be made for Adanel. Both of these characters evolved only in the last years of JRRT's life. sharon, the 7th age hobbit
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10-25-2002, 11:36 AM | #9 | |
Ghastly Neekerbreeker
Join Date: Dec 2001
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I think Gildor did a little more than just put Frodo on the Rivendell guest list. |
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12-01-2002, 05:11 PM | #10 | |
Sword of the Spirit
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I've ressurected this thread because I found something I thought was interesting. This is from
the Hobbit Page 51 Speaking of Elrond Quote:
What are your thoughts? [ December 01, 2002: Message edited by: Raefindel ]
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12-02-2002, 06:02 AM | #11 |
Deadnight Chanter
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He qualifies for the title on both grounds:
The strain of elven blood and his choice qualify him as an elf, right, but the source of the narrative of The Hobbit is supposedly Bilbo, who may have not known so much of the history at the time, and had Elrond described by Gandalf, who chose such a description for the sake of simplicity or any other reason cf numenoreans, who ceased to be elf-friends as soon as they forbade the elven tongue on their isle.
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12-02-2002, 02:13 PM | #12 | |||
Wight
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
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From Birdland: Quote:
Child of the 7th Age: I like your idea of Tolkien being the overarching Elf-Friend. I had not thought of it in that way before, but now that you put it into words it makes perfect sense.
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12-02-2002, 02:43 PM | #13 |
Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Keneldil,
Yes, Tolkien as Elf friend makes enormous sense to me. This is especially true because the Elf-friend is so often the person who transmits and tales to us. Bilbo and Gandalf stand out of course with their written volumes and even Aragorn who recites the tale of Beren and Luthien. And, of course all the older mariners who somehow found their way to Tol Eressea by ship or dream and were then privileged to take away tales. There is a great fan fiction which includes the figure of such an Elf-friend on the Downs. Tales of Tol Eressea by Mithadan. Have a look. I'm also bumping up another thread that's closely related to this--The Light in Frodo's Face--that talks about one of the common attributes of an Elf-friend. Thought you might like to read it. sharon
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01-05-2003, 03:34 AM | #14 | ||
Delver in the Deep
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Heren, you're right, there is definitely a change in the prerequisite to being an Elf-friend throughout the ages. Your first post was very complete in detail, and you've provided some excellent quotes. In the First Age, anyone from the Three Houses was an Elf-friend - they were all (women included) allies, and shared in the trials and triumphs of the Elder Kindred. It was the time of the Elves, and they had not yet begun to fade. By the War of the Ring, we know that their numbers and their martial strength is greatly diminished. In those times I think that they would be pleasantly surprised to find a friend who would speak to them in their own language, the knowledge and use of which was greatly diminished.
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What about the case of Gondor? Do you think that all the people of Gondor are Elf-friends, because they are such staunch opponents of Sauron (unlike Rohan who only interferes when necessary)? Or is it only the noble houses and the masters of lore who are Elf-friends, since they speak the language? OR, is Elf-friend simply a hereditary title, as such applying to anyone descended from the Elendili, regardless of political leaning or knowledge of language?
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05-20-2004, 04:45 AM | #15 | |||||
Deadnight Chanter
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Let us consider Denethor, Boromir and Faramir, per instance - Denethor is definitely not 'elf-friend', since he confines his service to Gondor and Gondor only, and does not care very much of what happens to Elves (or anyone else) outside his boundaries: Quote:
Quote:
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As for the tongue: Quote:
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Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! Last edited by HerenIstarion; 05-20-2004 at 04:58 AM. |
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05-20-2004, 08:11 PM | #16 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I don't believe simply speaking the elven languages qualifies one as an elf friend. The people are only said to be descended from elf friends of old, but are not described as elf friends themselves. The people of Gondor had long ceased all contact with the elves, and therfore cannot be described as elf friends. To be an elf-friend, I think that one has had to have had dealings with the elves, and probably done a service to the elves, such as Aldarion, the greatest elf freind among men at that time, who did much in helping Gil Galad defend against the shadow in the east. Frodo is perhaps described by Gildor as an elf friend because he is the heir of Bilbo, a elf friend known in Rivendell.
In order to be considered an elf friend, I believe one would have to have had positive dealings with the elves, and probably helped them in some way.
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05-20-2004, 08:50 PM | #17 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
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Not to display my rampant bias (as if I would ever do anything like that ) but it seems to me that being an elf-friend is something that is restricted to Men or Mannish creatures (read hobbits). At least I can't recall a time when, oh, just to pick an example, a dwarf was called an elf-friend.
On the providing service to the Elves front, going back to the First Age, the Dwarven kings of Belegost were always faithful allies of the elves and saved their bacon at the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. However, Azaghal was never bestowed the title of Elf-friend posthumously. Although, I must admit that this post is based to an embarassing degree on pure unreasoning first reaction. I'm not sure, but there might be a reference that I'm forgetting.
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05-21-2004, 02:24 AM | #18 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
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Gimli Elf-Friend
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05-25-2004, 08:12 AM | #19 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
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Well, judging from the topic of the thread, I'd say being declared an elf-friend.
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05-25-2004, 08:19 AM | #20 |
A Shade of Westernesse
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Or a free, indefinite stay at a homely little cabin in the woods.
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