Question about copyrighting and stuff like that... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Meneltarmacil · 01-16-2007, 07:26 AM

Okay, I can't really find if this question has been answered before, so I'm just going to ask it here.

Can things like elvish screennames and the threads in this forum featuring LOTR characters (like the RPGs, for example) be considered infringements on copyright? I've heard of the Tolkien Estate blocking the publication of texts in Elvish before, and putting this kind of stuff up on websties may count as publication to a certain extent.

Anyhow, apologies if this sounds kind of stupid; I was just concerned.

Hookbill the Goomba · 01-16-2007, 07:51 AM

I wouldn't think so. They don't sue a newspaper review for use of the book's title or character reviews, now do they? If they do... then... I'd better put a stop to some upcoming Newspapers.

I don't have a great knowledge of the law on this subject (or, indeed, any subject), but I think that, if the Tolkien estate ever found this site then it might be considered free advertising. Countless are the books I have bought because of this forum.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-16-2007, 07:54 AM

I'm not an intellectual property lawyer and I can, in any event, only speak to the UK legal position.

Under UK law, there is no copyright in a name. Copyright protects artistic works - eg, books, sound recordings, paintings etc - but not individual elements, such as names, phrases etc, within them.

Names can be eligible for protection as a trade mark, and I believe that a number of LotR-related names have been registered as such in connection with LotR merchandise (action figures etc). However, a trade mark will only be infringed when another person uses the same name commercially in connection with the same, or similar, goods or services.

Hope that helps.

Meneltarmacil · 01-16-2007, 08:54 AM

Thanks, Sauce, for the reply. I, however, am from the U.S., where things are probably different.

The Might · 01-16-2007, 09:01 AM

I was wondering about quotes.
How big does an excerpt have to be to be considered illegal, and no longer a legal quote?

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-16-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Might

I was wondering about quotes.
How big does an excerpt have to be to be considered illegal, and no longer a legal quote?

Any quotation from a literary work beyond a mere name, title, slogan or phrase will generally constitute a breach of copyright in that work. However, under the "fair dealing" exception, it is permissible to make single copies or take short extracts of works when used for non-commercial research or private study (although sufficient acknowledgement of the author should be included).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menel

I, however, am from the U.S., where things are probably different.

The US Copyright Office website looks to be a useful resource in this regard. From a brief review, US law in this area looks to be broadly the same in terms of the points addressed above.

Durelin · 01-16-2007, 09:56 AM

Most authors (and likely those who help Christopher Tolkien manage Tolkien's estate, if not Christopher Tolkien himself) are well aware of things like fan-fiction and roleplaying. Because of this, some authors have actually strictly said that they forbid these things, and thus it is considered illegal to use their characters, places, etc. But Tolkien is not one of those.

The list is somewhere...I'll go look for it.

01-16-2007, 07:26 AM	#1
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	Question about copyrighting and stuff like that... Okay, I can't really find if this question has been answered before, so I'm just going to ask it here. Can things like elvish screennames and the threads in this forum featuring LOTR characters (like the RPGs, for example) be considered infringements on copyright? I've heard of the Tolkien Estate blocking the publication of texts in Elvish before, and putting this kind of stuff up on websties may count as publication to a certain extent. Anyhow, apologies if this sounds kind of stupid; I was just concerned. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

01-16-2007, 07:51 AM	#2
Hookbill the Goomba Alive without breath Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla Posts: 5,912	I wouldn't think so. They don't sue a newspaper review for use of the book's title or character reviews, now do they? If they do... then... I'd better put a stop to some upcoming Newspapers. I don't have a great knowledge of the law on this subject (or, indeed, any subject), but I think that, if the Tolkien estate ever found this site then it might be considered free advertising. Countless are the books I have bought because of this forum. __________________ I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket...

01-16-2007, 08:54 AM	#4
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	Thanks, Sauce, for the reply. I, however, am from the U.S., where things are probably different. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

01-16-2007, 09:01 AM	#5
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	I was wondering about quotes. How big does an excerpt have to be to be considered illegal, and no longer a legal quote? __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

01-16-2007, 07:54 AM	#3
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	I'm not an intellectual property lawyer and I can, in any event, only speak to the UK legal position. Under UK law, there is no copyright in a name. Copyright protects artistic works - eg, books, sound recordings, paintings etc - but not individual elements, such as names, phrases etc, within them. Names can be eligible for protection as a trade mark, and I believe that a number of LotR-related names have been registered as such in connection with LotR merchandise (action figures etc). However, a trade mark will only be infringed when another person uses the same name commercially in connection with the same, or similar, goods or services. Hope that helps.

01-16-2007, 09:56 AM	#7
Durelin Estelo dagnir, Melo ring Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,063	Most authors (and likely those who help Christopher Tolkien manage Tolkien's estate, if not Christopher Tolkien himself) are well aware of things like fan-fiction and roleplaying. Because of this, some authors have actually strictly said that they forbid these things, and thus it is considered illegal to use their characters, places, etc. But Tolkien is not one of those. The list is somewhere...I'll go look for it.