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Old 12-28-2006, 05:25 PM   #1
The Might
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Question No other way ?

I just had this sudden idea as I was re-reading LOTR today, The Forbidden Pool.
There Faramir was talking to Frodo about the future of his quest and about the way he should choose. Clearly he was not pleased with the choice made by Gollum (Cirith Ungol), and asked Frodo several times if there was no other way. So, I'll be a copy-cat and ask the same:
No other way at all???
I mean, even if the mountains were steep, hobbits are good climbers, and Gollum as well. Wouldn't it have been much, much easier and less dangerous for them to just climb and pass the mountains somewhere in North Ithilien. That way they would have never had the whole Cirith Ungol problem.

Faramir himself knows no other way, because, as he says, all ways that might have been known were forgotten, and no man of Gondor had entered the mountains:

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`Where then shall I go? ' said Frodo. `Back to the Black Gate and deliver myself up to the guard? What do you know against this place that makes its name so dreadful? '
`Nothing certain,' said Faramir. 'We of Gondor do not ever pass east of the Road in these days, and none of us younger men has ever done so, nor has any of us set foot upon the Mountains of Shadow. Of them we know only old report and the rumour of bygone days.
However, is there a hint that there might have been another way across the mountains ?
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Old 12-28-2006, 05:44 PM   #2
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This subject has been well debated on the downs. . .Many is of the belief that there must have been other ways and that Gandalf must have known at least one, but I don't think anything was ever concluded.

I personally think that there would have been other ways, but I doubt that they would have been alternatives. One could have spend ages searching for passes over the mountains and they would probably also have been guarded, but probably only by orcs.
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Old 12-29-2006, 01:45 AM   #3
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Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
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Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne
I personally think that there would have been other ways, but I doubt that they would have been alternatives. One could have spend ages searching for passes over the mountains and they would probably also have been guarded, but probably only by orcs.
Yeah, I think here is the answer. You have to consider the need for speed and that Frodo&co. had to know a way which would surely take them where they want, not that they find some pass and after a week of walking on the edge of exhaustion a great uncrossable fissure, or worse, an Orc tower, appears right before them. Also, remember Emyn Muil, what trouble it caused, and it was much easier terrain.
So: the passages probably have been there, but they surely could not serve good for Frodo's purposes.
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Old 12-29-2006, 04:39 AM   #4
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you have to consider the need for speed
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Alternative ways - no.
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Old 12-29-2006, 05:05 AM   #5
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You have misunderstood me Legate.
I am also asking if in general there wouldn't have been another way. Gandalf might have known as he was not too happy to hear Cirith Ungol when he met Faramir.
If we are to talk only about Frodo and Sam, I would think there was an even more important reason then their need for speed - Gollum. They now trusted him as far as leading them on the way was concerned, and they believed that Cirith Ungol was besides the Black Gate the only other way to enter Mordor.
And as Faramir and nobody else could prove Gollum wrong, they had no other way then to follow him.
But if Gandalf had remained with them, they might have taken another way I suspect.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:38 AM   #6
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Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Yes, I understand, I apologize, but you first spoke about the hobbits and Gollum, so I took it that you are speaking about their situation.
Anyway, you have my meaning of other ways through Ephel Dúath or Ered Lithui - since Cirith Ungol and Cirith Gorgor were the ones most used, and known (and as we can see, in case of Cirith Ungol, not so well known!), I'd suppose that there was not much else to come up with. Personally I wonder if Gandalf had even known what way they should go once they cross Anduin. The only Gandalf's words of this we have near the West gate of Moria:

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'We must go down the Silverlode into the secret woods, and so to the Great River, and then -'
He paused.
'Yes, and where then?' asked Merry.
'To the end of the journey – in the end,' said Gandalf. 'We cannot look too far ahead. Let us be glad that the first stage is safely over.
I wouldn't be sure that Gandalf did not know the way to Mordor or did not plan it, nevertheless, he didn't want to talk about it, so we might just guess what plans he had. I don't know if it is safe to assume that Gandalf knew some not-so-well-guarded way through the Mountains of Shadow, even if he had wandered there once or twice, he wouldn't know if the conditions didn't change since that time. We can tell for sure that he didn't want to go through Cirith Ungol - Gandalf seems pretty startled when Faramir mentions it. I also don't know if Gandalf had some plan how to get past Cirith Gorgor, it seems rather suicidal. There will also be the possibility that he somehow thought about coming to Mordor from the northwest or south, but that is, in my opinion, not much of a good idea - this would mean a long journey through barren lands surrounded by the nations enslaved by the Enemy. Which again brings to my mind the question, if Gandalf himself did really have a plan, or if he just thought of "improvising" (for example, if the Fellowship came upon a band of Orcs on Dagorlad and took their clothes to sneak past the guards of Cirith Gorgor). Perhaps he had some preminitions that it would not be his part to choose the way to the Land of Shadow?
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