Parallels between Gandalf and Glorfindel - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

CSteefel · 10-12-2006, 03:24 PM

I was struck recently by the parallels between some of the Gandalf story and that of Glorindel. Both were killed while fighting with a Balrog (who was killed as well) while helping a group of weaker people to escape, Gandalf in Moria and Glorfindel from Gondolin. Both were sent back to contest the power of Sauron, Glorfindel supposedly in the 2nd Age, Gandalf in the 3rd age. Both were able to drive off the Witch King, Glorfindel at the Battle of Fornost and at the Last Bridge, Gandalf at Weathertop and then again on the Pelennor Fields.

ninja91 · 10-20-2006, 10:23 AM

Haha! And their names both start with a "G"!
Just had to add some comic relief...sorry...

mormegil · 10-20-2006, 11:52 AM

Do you see the similarities as only relating to those of Gandalf and Glorfindel or more generally as a character type? What I mean is that Tolkien seems to write about heroes, but they are heroes that aren't super powerful. Gandalf and Glorfindel are great in their own right and proved themselves well on the battlefield and in council but they had their weaknesses and could be defeated. Other books I've read have heroes that are all but undefeatable. Tolkien however has some like Turin, Samwise, Frodo, Beleg, Feanor et al that are great but not over the top. That is something I enjoy about Tolkien, his heroes are more believable.

Raynor · 10-20-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mormegil

That is something I enjoy about Tolkien, his heroes are more believable.

Well, you are in for a surprise:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appendix: The converse of Manwe and Eru, Atrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, HoME X

The resurrection of the body (at least as far as Elves were concerned) was in a sense incorporeal. But while it could pass physical barriers at will, it could at will oppose a barrier to matter. If you touched a resurrected body you felt it. Or if it willed it could simply elude you - disappear. Its position in space was at will

The position of the body of the resurrected elves was at their will - how about that? Also note that Chris says in the text that this appears to be part of Tolkien's last and stable view on Glorfindel.

CSteefel · 10-21-2006, 03:03 PM

I agree, that is one of the strengths of Tolkien that he does not make his heroes invincible. One loses all dramatic tension in the story if this is the case...

In the case of Glorfindel and Gandalf, I was struck by how the story line (more than the character) reappeared, once with an Elven Lord, and then again with one of the Istari. Glorfindel is never really fleshed out as a character, but in battle at least he seems to have similar powers to Gandalf and plays a similar role in their battles with a Balrog and their showdown with the Witch King, as I mentioned above.

I guess the difference, besides the fact that Glorfindel is not fleshed out as a character, is that Gandalf also takes on the role of chief strategist in the war against Sauron, while Glorfindel is limited to something more like a warrior.

Istari · 12-05-2006, 12:29 PM

Hey, what about Frodo and Faramir? Both have huge burdens to carry-Frodo carries the ring while Faramir carries Boromir's legacy. Frodo lies near to death at Shelob's lair and at Mt Doom and Faramir almosts dies from the poisoned arrow. Also, to point out that both have big expectatoins of them and they overcome the odds. I say that Tolkien likes to foil characters to each other.

10-12-2006, 03:24 PM	#1
CSteefel Wight Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 204	Parallels between Gandalf and Glorfindel I was struck recently by the parallels between some of the Gandalf story and that of Glorindel. Both were killed while fighting with a Balrog (who was killed as well) while helping a group of weaker people to escape, Gandalf in Moria and Glorfindel from Gondolin. Both were sent back to contest the power of Sauron, Glorfindel supposedly in the 2nd Age, Gandalf in the 3rd age. Both were able to drive off the Witch King, Glorfindel at the Battle of Fornost and at the Last Bridge, Gandalf at Weathertop and then again on the Pelennor Fields.

10-20-2006, 11:52 AM	#3
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,648	Do you see the similarities as only relating to those of Gandalf and Glorfindel or more generally as a character type? What I mean is that Tolkien seems to write about heroes, but they are heroes that aren't super powerful. Gandalf and Glorfindel are great in their own right and proved themselves well on the battlefield and in council but they had their weaknesses and could be defeated. Other books I've read have heroes that are all but undefeatable. Tolkien however has some like Turin, Samwise, Frodo, Beleg, Feanor et al that are great but not over the top. That is something I enjoy about Tolkien, his heroes are more believable. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

12-05-2006, 12:29 PM	#6
Istari Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Road Posts: 15	Hey, what about Frodo and Faramir? Both have huge burdens to carry-Frodo carries the ring while Faramir carries Boromir's legacy. Frodo lies near to death at Shelob's lair and at Mt Doom and Faramir almosts dies from the poisoned arrow. Also, to point out that both have big expectatoins of them and they overcome the odds. I say that Tolkien likes to foil characters to each other. __________________ "What about second breakfast?" -Peregrin Took-

10-21-2006, 03:03 PM	#5
CSteefel Wight Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 204	I agree, that is one of the strengths of Tolkien that he does not make his heroes invincible. One loses all dramatic tension in the story if this is the case... In the case of Glorfindel and Gandalf, I was struck by how the story line (more than the character) reappeared, once with an Elven Lord, and then again with one of the Istari. Glorfindel is never really fleshed out as a character, but in battle at least he seems to have similar powers to Gandalf and plays a similar role in their battles with a Balrog and their showdown with the Witch King, as I mentioned above. I guess the difference, besides the fact that Glorfindel is not fleshed out as a character, is that Gandalf also takes on the role of chief strategist in the war against Sauron, while Glorfindel is limited to something more like a warrior.