Two films for The Hobbit? Invented materials to "fill in the gaps"?

[Encaitare]

Entertainment Weekly article: Will Peter Jackson Make "The Hobbit"?

Ack, the "inventing new material" part makes me nervous. So much of the story's charm is in its simplicity.

[Hyarion]

I just saw that as well, appalling. Over at Tolkien Gateway they've started the Dear Peter Jackson Project (a letter) in hopes of convincing PJ to stay as true to the books as possible. Since it's on a wiki you can add/edit the letter and sign your name if you agree. I'm almost open to PJ not directing it if he thinks because he has the money he can alter the story however he wants.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

Entertainment Weekly article: Will Peter Jackson Make "The Hobbit"?

Ack, the "inventing new material" part makes me nervous. So much of the story's charm is in its simplicity.

Well, it won't be as the book - I expect something in the style of LotR, more 'adult' & serious. Hence the spirit of the book will be lost. I would assume that any backstory would have to avoid the storyline of Quest of Erebor & come up with a new one, as that material was not sold by Tolkien, & expect the Estate would sue over copyright.

Inventing new material is hardly an issue in light of LotR, where characters, motivations & storylines were altered willy nilly.

The most surprising thing as far as I'm concerned is that they're only going for two movies - aren't trilogies the thing these days?

[Essex]

Originally Posted by davem

Inventing new material is hardly an issue in light of LotR, where characters, motivations & storylines were altered willy nilly.

I can see your point here but disagree with the term willy nilly. I don't think ANYTHING Jackson did to lotr movies was done willy nilly. It depends what your definition of willy nilly is I suppose.

Regarding copyright. I wonder if they can use the detail from the Tale of the Years and can do stuff around the white council / dol guldur?

What about the stuff from unfinished tales? im thinking in particular of the smoke rings episode with gandalf and saruman that is crying out to be filmed!!!! or is this 'untouchable' from copyright sense too?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

After that comment from Davem, I was just waiting for you to show up Essex

I don't know how I feel about 2 films. If the UT is used to make them longer, then go for it, but if it is just random stuff then I am a bit more sceptic.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Essex

What about the stuff from unfinished tales? im thinking in particular of the smoke rings episode with gandalf and saruman that is crying out to be filmed!!!! or is this 'untouchable' from copyright sense too?

Everything apart from LotR & TH is copyrighted as far as I'm aware, & that copyright belongs to the Tolkien Estate. CT, who owns the rights to all his father's writings that were unpublished at the time of his father's death has total control. Given his stated position that the works are 'unfilmable' I can't see him agreeing to the UT material being used.

This would especially be the case if the scriptwriters intend to add material (ironic perhaps, in that Tolkien's will authorises CT to alter, add to, or destroy the material as he sees fit). Yet CT's clear intent from the start has been to treat it with the utmost respect. One suspects that Tolkien only named him his Literary Executor because he knew CT would take the approach he has.

CT considers his father's work to be great literature. PJ seems to consider both LotR & TH as 'first draft screenplays' for action movies. I cannot see that any agreement could be reached between them. I suspect this would be less of a problem if PJ intended to film TH as is - a 'simple' children's tale. As I said, my suspicion is that PJ intends to film TH in the style of LotR, & bring in extra material to that end.

I suppose that there is a chance that by the time work on TH begins CT could have passed away & the rights will have passed on. At that point, who knows? However, even then I can't see any agreement between PJ & the Estate being reached.

As to the idea that any of Tolkien's work is 'crying out to be filmed', well, we'll have to agree to disagree there.....

If we look at the statement on the Tolkien Estate page re Children of Hurin we find the following:

The rights in « The Children of Húrin » are owned by the Tolkien family via the Tolkien Estate, and the book rights have been sold in a worldwide deal to the Tolkien publishers HarperCollinsUK. There are no plans for the foreseeable future to license any other rights in the work (whether film or otherwise).

I think we can see CT's name written all over this addendum....

[Sardy]

Originally Posted by Essex

What about the stuff from unfinished tales? im thinking in particular of the smoke rings episode with gandalf and saruman that is crying out to be filmed!!!!

can someone point me towards this passage in UT? Don't recall it and would love to give it a read...

[Essex]

Originally Posted by Sardy

can someone point me towards this passage in UT? Don't recall it and would love to give it a read...

the hunt for the ring chapter.
section (iii) conerning Gandalf, saruman and the shire (page 348 in my paperback copy)

[Boromir88]

Well, it won't be as the book - I expect something in the style of LotR, more 'adult' & serious.~davem

Taking some exerpts from an interview with Mr. Jackson I would agree. Perhaps before the movie is even started we could pin PJ down as mutilating The Hobbit:

I would love to! If I was doing THE HOBBIT I'd try to get as many of the guys back as I could. I mean, there's actually a role for Legolas in THE HOBBIT, his father features in it, obviously Gandalf and Saruman should be part of it. There's things that you can do with THE HOBBIT to bring in some old friends, for sure. I have thought about it from time to time... Elrond, Galadriel and Arwen could all feature. Elves have lived for centuries. Part of the attraction would be working with old friends. I wouldn't want to do it unless we could keep a continuity of cast. I have zero interest in directing a Gandalf who wasn't Ian McKellen for instance. Strange to be even talking about it, for three years it's been in this rights situation limbo.

[...]

saw that. Yeah, we're supposed to be writing The Lovely Bones, but of course Phil, Fran and I read the thing on the net and spent most of this morning talking about The Hobbit. We think the two film idea is really smart. One of the problems with The Hobbit is that it is a fairly simple kids story, and doesn't really feel like The Lord of the Rings. Tonally I mean. It's always may be a little worried, but with two films that kinda gets easier. It allows for more complexity. At that implied stuff with Gandalf and the White Council and the return of Sauron could be fully explored.

The full interview can be seen here.

Of course I don't mind bringing back Mckellan as Gandalf, that would be nice, and some background to the happenings of The White Council and Dol Guldur, since that is all implied in The Hobbit. However, it seems like Jackson has these grand plans of just bringing back the 'fellows' (Viggo, Hugo, Liv, Cate...etc) and adding in all this extra junk that makes ill use of time management then actual scenes in the book must be cut out, because there isn't enough time and it's 'childish.' Hmm...sounds like LOTR.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Originally Posted by davem

Well, it won't be as the book - I expect something in the style of LotR, more 'adult' & serious. Hence the spirit of the book will be lost. I would assume that any backstory would have to avoid the storyline of Quest of Erebor & come up with a new one, as that material was not sold by Tolkien, & expect the Estate would sue over copyright.

Inventing new material is hardly an issue in light of LotR, where characters, motivations & storylines were altered willy nilly.

The most surprising thing as far as I'm concerned is that they're only going for two movies - aren't trilogies the thing these days?

Should he even be allowed to make a movie about a book that is so earnestly not a part of the Legendarium?