The Big Bad Read

[Lalwendë]

Shock Horror!

A poll on books in which Tolkien does not come top! But he does come second. Or rather Sauron does. There was a poll taken to find who's the best villain in a book (including comics).

But he's not my favourite villain from Tolkien's books. My favourite is Saruman. I think Sauron is just too rotten to be a really enjoyable villain; Saruman on the other hand is someone good who went bad, and we see his deceptions close up. Plus he gets me thinking about just what it was that he was up to, breaking light and making rings and all that scientific stuff. You don't really know where you are with Saruman, but you just know that Sauron is bad.

Who's your favourite villain in the books? Is Sauron a 'good' villain?

I especially like how in this poll the third named, Mrs Coulter, is still a villain only on the page. Did the films make Sauron seem more scary than he does in the books?

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Did the films make Sauron seem more scary than he does in the books?

Anytime I see a lighthouse I cower...

Hope that this doesn't take over the thread, but I'm going with Sauron over Saruman. Sauron, being more alien, was scarier. Also I would love to read the history of the entire Third Age from his point of view.

[Bêthberry]

Interesting question. Is Gollem a villain? Or just a pathetic victim?

My money's on Lobelia. That woman could ruin any tea time, and no amount of sherry or port could undo her dispiriting machinations. She puts Mrs. Proudie to shame.

[Macalaure]

From LotR I would pick the Witch-King. Each time I hear him (or a fellow Nazgûl) speak in the book I shudder. He's extremely scary to me, yet he makes me wonder what kind of person he is, or better, was, and whether he would have chosen differently long ago in hindsight. In a way he's a very tragic figure, on second sight.

Sauron in the LotR is a little too abstract to be a first class villain. But if you look at the Akallabêth, there he is awesome. He's corrupting and unscrupulous, he's in a very interesting way challenged, and he's in a very devilish way sympathetic. I would pick Second-Age-Sauron as my overall favourite.

I give an honourable mention to Carcharoth. Lúthien's words to him about forgetting for a while the dreadful doom of life make me feel truly sorry for him and for all of his breed.

[Folwren]

Don't smash me, but Feanor makes an awesome villain. And he is one, too. If it hadn't been for him a great deal of damage wouldn't have been done! But he is my favorite because at the same time that he's such a rogue, he's also very...how do I put it? I feel bad for making him a villain, but he was one. He was also a perfect elf, though, so far as looks and ability go. He was remarkable! But he was evil.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

From LotR I would pick the Witch-King. Each time I hear him (or a fellow Nazgûl) speak in the book I shudder. He's extremely scary to me, yet he makes me wonder what kind of person he is, or better, was, and whether he would have chosen differently long ago in hindsight. In a way he's a very tragic figure, on second sight.

Do you know what's funny. . .when I first read the books (I was 11, maybe), the Nazguls so scared me that first, I didn't sleep near the edge of my bed for a week for fear of being grabbed by one (from underneath the bed, yes). Second, I even quit reading the first book I was so frightened! I now find it interesting that Tolkien coud have made something so scarry without having any blood or horrible images described in that part of the book. (I'm speaking mainly about Three Is Company.)

Anyway, there are my two cents.

-- Folwren

[Lalwendë]

Hmmm, I could be convinced by The Mouth of Sauron and Feanor to get a place in my top ten Rings baddies, but still nobody tops the satisfaction I get from reading and thinking about Saruman. He's so erm...colourful!

I'm surprised more kids didn't vote for Gollum, but then he did have an endearing side in the films - and I personally don't think he's a villain, more of a victim as Bethberry says. Poor Gollum. I know someone who loves Gollum like he's an imaginary pet too.

[Folwren]

I actually like Gollum a lot when I read the books. I like him all up to The Choices of Master Samwise, and then I hate him. But every time I read the books it's the same. . .poor little chap. He deserves pity during the first half of the story!

-- Folwren

[the guy who be short]

Isn't Artemis Fowl (#10) more of an antihero?

And I would probably go with Gollum. Not only was he good-turned-evil, he was also turned-good-again-turned-evil-agained. It's interesting seeing how he changes from almost-hero to baddy. He's a lot more human than distant Sauron. Saruman would come second, because again, it is quite frightening seeing how he turned to evil and how anybody could, perhaps, fall to such levels, thinking it to be for the greater good.

[The Saucepan Man]

Zaphod Beeblebrox!!!???!!!

The obvious answer to the question of who was the ultimate villain in Tolkien's tales is, of course, Morgoth. His PR agents just ain't as good as Sauron's.

[alatar]

If choosing from the 'list,' then I'm going to go with "Napoleon the Pig." Driving the horse to death while living it up...too many real world exemplars for me. And Voldemort is spooky, but it's in Harry Potterworld, and so I just don't get as hooked. I've seen Saruman, and the reality drives away fear.

The maia that one fears is worse than the wizard one cheers.

[Boromir88]

My favorite villain has always been the Mouth of Sauron. It's rather strange but I find him an excellent villain because the fact that we know so little about him, he makes a short appearance and is shooed off. But as far as villain goes, let's take some of these into account:

The rider was robed in black, and black was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man.

To wear black clothing is a symbol of a person's evil. And even more frightening he's compared to a Ringwraith, yet he's not one of them, he's actually still a living man.

But it is told that he was a renegade; who came of the race of those that are named the Black Numenoreans; for they established their dwellings in Middle-earth during the years of Sauron's domination, and they worshipped him, being enamoured of evil knowledge.

Simply put, just more 'eekness' and darkness.

and because of his cunning he grew even higher in the Lords' favour...

Nothing more sweet than an evil man that's cunning, and it should say something considering that he rose well high into the ranks of Sauron. So high that:

and he learned great sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron...

Being Sauron's herald and ambassador, he was able to learn from Sauron's own thoughts and be a good representative of his will. And concluding, maybe the most evil thing of all:

and he was more cruel than any orc.

That says a lot right there.

We know so little, yet so much, about the Mouth of Sauron, and that to me makes him the most intriguing villain in LOTR. We know:

1. He doesn't remember his own name
2. He's robed in all black
3. He is compared to a Ringwraith
4. He knows Sauron's mind probably better than anyone else
5. He's learned sorcery from Sauron
6. He's more cruel than any orc

And we learned all this in one short paragraph, yet there is so much mystery surrounding his history, his fate, what it was like to be Sauron's right hand guy. I've often thrown around the theory that had Sauron been successful and gained control of all Middle-earth he would have booted Saruman from Orthanc and placed in the MoS in charge.

So, for me, the mystery yet frightening look at just exactly how evil this man was in one little paragraph makes him my favorite villain in the story.